mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (October-December) » Archive through December 12, 2004 » Accentuation « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 207.232.63.73
Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 04:20 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Hi. Another question that's been bothering me:

Where do the Northern Irish Gaelic speakers put their accent on. For example words like: caighdeán maireachtála - where is the emphasis? Please, if someone here knows how it should be read - with accentuation, could you solve this for me?!!!

Thanks

P.S.
If the same person has an encompassing knowledge about accents in Gaelic, I'd be happy to read it.:-)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 193.1.100.102
Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 06:49 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Chun tosaigh a David. Initial stress as in CAIGHdean and MAIReachtala.

Fágaimis siúd anois mar atá sé! (Róchuma na hoibre.)

Ádh mór.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

david (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 212.235.8.220
Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 02:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

GRMMA, agus an bhfuil aon athru ar bith ar an stress, nuair a thagann fada ar an focal?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 285
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 05:13 am:   Edit Post Print Post

This is a huge subject.

Firstly, a specific accent doesn't put a stress on the first syllable, or on the second syllable, but on the last syllable or the second last syllable. For instance:

simplify
simplification

resign
resignation

grammar
grammatical

Notice how even though how with "grammar", you may put the stress on the first syllable, you're going to put the stress on the second syllable of "grammatical". It gets complicated when you go into the realms of three/four syllables. And ofcourse you have irregulars, like "about". A common way of recognizing an African accent is that they'll say "about" as "ab-out".

You'll notice that when the stress changes, there's times when a long vowel will be shortened, for instance:

resign
resignation

advocate (say the verb, then say the noun)
The above verb is a great example of where one's accent doesn't dictate where the stress is put. All verbs ending in "ate" have a noun of the same spelling, but with different stress, eg.:

The Devil's Advocate.
I can't advocate that.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 217.132.171.37
Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 06:24 am:   Edit Post Print Post

thanks, but I would really want to get back to NI gaelic - does it stress the syllable before last, the syllable with fada, or is it up to the speaker to decide?

aris, grmma

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 289
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 08:13 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Well here's the general overview:

Ulster: First syllable
Connacht: First syllable
Leinster: First syllable

Munster: Second syllable

Hence in Munster, they pronounce "committee" as "com-i-TEE"

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 217.132.12.8
Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 08:50 am:   Edit Post Print Post

thank you.

That means that for example the name "MacMathuna" is pronounced mac MAthuna?

Thanks

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 193.1.100.102
Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 08:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post

For what you're aiming at, canúint Uladh, note also the shortening of long syllables. Scinn tú thairis thuas a David: CAIGHdean and MAIReachtala.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 193.1.100.102
Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 08:57 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Sea, 'MATHúna' le Clainn Mhic Mhathúna Oirghialla (- Co. Monaghan plus) ach i gCo. an Cláir: Mac MathÚNa agus i mBéarla Mheiriceá: Ó MathÚNa > MahONey.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 46
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 01:43 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Reminds me of the lad who was forever putting the em-PHAsis on the wrong syl-LABle.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 217.132.12.8
Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 12:25 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Tuigaim, go raibh mile maith agaibh, uile.

Anois ta me in ann codladh. :-)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dearg
Member
Username: Dearg

Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 09:12 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Fear_na_mbróg,

Your initial examples made sense, but this didn't:

>advocate (say the verb, then say the noun)
>The above verb is a great example of where one's accent doesn't dictate where the stress is put. All verbs ending in "ate" have a noun of the same spelling, but with different stress, eg.:
>
>The Devil's Advocate.
>I can't advocate that.

Maybe it's a British-ism, because here in the USA we put the accent on the same syllable in both the noun and the verb; we just change whether the vowels are long or short.

For "The Devil's advocate" we say "AD-vuh-kit".

For "I can't advocate that" we say "AD-vuh-kate".

But for both forms, the primary accent is on the first syllable.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

TSJ (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 66.105.234.55
Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 01:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post

As a Dubliner in America I personally pronounce "advocate", noun and verb as follows:

For "the divil's advocate" I say" AD-vuh-kit".

For "I can't advocate that" I say "ad-vuh-KATE'.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 294
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 11:33 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I do it exactly as TSJ does too, ie. "ad-vuh -- KATE". I pronounce it sort-of as if there's a ramp between "vuh" and "KATE", so I sort of slow down and hold back on the "vuh" and accelerate into the "KATE", if that makes any sense!

By the way, my intended alias wasn't "Fear_na_mbróg", that's just how the registration system mangled my name -- my name's "Fear na mBróg".

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dearg
Member
Username: Dearg

Post Number: 13
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 12:43 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Interesting pronunciation.

OK, and excuse me for deconstructing your name but I'm fairly new at this. "Man [with?] a shoe"? Are you a shoe salesman, or did you lose one? :-)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 478
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 05:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

The Shoe Man. It's a pseudonym; FnaB refuses to divulge his real identity, or the reason for the choice of handle.

bróg - ainmfhocal
bróg [ainmneach uatha]
bróige [ginideach uatha]
bróga [ainmneach iolra]
bróg [ginideach iolra]

(Message edited by aonghus on November 28, 2004)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Natalie
Member
Username: Natalie

Post Number: 88
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 08:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I like the name. Whenever I'm trying to remember how to do the "of the" relation, I just think of his name. I don't know why, but everyone needs some sort of memory hook. :)

Natalie

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 480
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 05:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post

What the Germans call "a donkey's bridge" (The memory hook).

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Natalie
Member
Username: Natalie

Post Number: 89
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 04:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

lol...why do they call it a donkey's bridge!? :)

Natalie

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 488
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 04:25 am:   Edit Post Print Post

According to this site:
http://www.staff.amu.edu.pl/~macbor/redensarten_archiv.htm

Donkeys refuse to cross even the smallest running water, so you build them a small bridge to get around the obstacle. A small detour, but you get there.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Natalie
Member
Username: Natalie

Post Number: 91
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 07:06 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

That's cool! I learn something new on here everyday!

Natalie

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 212.235.55.187
Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 01:28 am:   Edit Post Print Post

another question: how do you pronounce Aonghus?

Is it Angus or Anghus?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 507
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 05:00 am:   Edit Post Print Post

No, it's Aonghus!

Not being entirely facetious, but the "o" is definitely audible, as is the h.



©Daltaí na Gaeilge