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David (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 04:20 am: |
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Hi. Another question that's been bothering me: Where do the Northern Irish Gaelic speakers put their accent on. For example words like: caighdeán maireachtála - where is the emphasis? Please, if someone here knows how it should be read - with accentuation, could you solve this for me?!!! Thanks P.S. If the same person has an encompassing knowledge about accents in Gaelic, I'd be happy to read it.:-) |
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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 06:49 am: |
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Chun tosaigh a David. Initial stress as in CAIGHdean and MAIReachtala. Fágaimis siúd anois mar atá sé! (Róchuma na hoibre.) Ádh mór. |
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david (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 02:13 pm: |
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GRMMA, agus an bhfuil aon athru ar bith ar an stress, nuair a thagann fada ar an focal? |
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Fear_na_mbróg
Member Username: Fear_na_mbróg
Post Number: 285 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 05:13 am: |
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This is a huge subject. Firstly, a specific accent doesn't put a stress on the first syllable, or on the second syllable, but on the last syllable or the second last syllable. For instance: simplify simplification resign resignation grammar grammatical Notice how even though how with "grammar", you may put the stress on the first syllable, you're going to put the stress on the second syllable of "grammatical". It gets complicated when you go into the realms of three/four syllables. And ofcourse you have irregulars, like "about". A common way of recognizing an African accent is that they'll say "about" as "ab-out". You'll notice that when the stress changes, there's times when a long vowel will be shortened, for instance: resign resignation advocate (say the verb, then say the noun) The above verb is a great example of where one's accent doesn't dictate where the stress is put. All verbs ending in "ate" have a noun of the same spelling, but with different stress, eg.: The Devil's Advocate. I can't advocate that. |
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David (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 06:24 am: |
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thanks, but I would really want to get back to NI gaelic - does it stress the syllable before last, the syllable with fada, or is it up to the speaker to decide? aris, grmma |
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Fear_na_mbróg
Member Username: Fear_na_mbróg
Post Number: 289 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 08:13 am: |
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Well here's the general overview: Ulster: First syllable Connacht: First syllable Leinster: First syllable Munster: Second syllable Hence in Munster, they pronounce "committee" as "com-i-TEE" |
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David (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 08:50 am: |
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thank you. That means that for example the name "MacMathuna" is pronounced mac MAthuna? Thanks |
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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 08:54 am: |
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For what you're aiming at, canúint Uladh, note also the shortening of long syllables. Scinn tú thairis thuas a David: CAIGHdean and MAIReachtala. |
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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 08:57 am: |
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Sea, 'MATHúna' le Clainn Mhic Mhathúna Oirghialla (- Co. Monaghan plus) ach i gCo. an Cláir: Mac MathÚNa agus i mBéarla Mheiriceá: Ó MathÚNa > MahONey. |
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Pádraig
Member Username: Pádraig
Post Number: 46 Registered: 09-2004
| Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 01:43 pm: |
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Reminds me of the lad who was forever putting the em-PHAsis on the wrong syl-LABle. |
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David (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 12:25 am: |
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Tuigaim, go raibh mile maith agaibh, uile. Anois ta me in ann codladh. :-) |
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Dearg
Member Username: Dearg
Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2004
| Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 09:12 pm: |
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Fear_na_mbróg, Your initial examples made sense, but this didn't: >advocate (say the verb, then say the noun) >The above verb is a great example of where one's accent doesn't dictate where the stress is put. All verbs ending in "ate" have a noun of the same spelling, but with different stress, eg.: > >The Devil's Advocate. >I can't advocate that. Maybe it's a British-ism, because here in the USA we put the accent on the same syllable in both the noun and the verb; we just change whether the vowels are long or short. For "The Devil's advocate" we say "AD-vuh-kit". For "I can't advocate that" we say "AD-vuh-kate". But for both forms, the primary accent is on the first syllable. |
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TSJ (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 01:54 am: |
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As a Dubliner in America I personally pronounce "advocate", noun and verb as follows: For "the divil's advocate" I say" AD-vuh-kit". For "I can't advocate that" I say "ad-vuh-KATE'. |
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Fear_na_mbróg
Member Username: Fear_na_mbróg
Post Number: 294 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 11:33 am: |
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I do it exactly as TSJ does too, ie. "ad-vuh -- KATE". I pronounce it sort-of as if there's a ramp between "vuh" and "KATE", so I sort of slow down and hold back on the "vuh" and accelerate into the "KATE", if that makes any sense! By the way, my intended alias wasn't "Fear_na_mbróg", that's just how the registration system mangled my name -- my name's "Fear na mBróg". |
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Dearg
Member Username: Dearg
Post Number: 13 Registered: 10-2004
| Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 12:43 pm: |
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Interesting pronunciation. OK, and excuse me for deconstructing your name but I'm fairly new at this. "Man [with?] a shoe"? Are you a shoe salesman, or did you lose one? :-) |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 478 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 05:10 pm: |
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The Shoe Man. It's a pseudonym; FnaB refuses to divulge his real identity, or the reason for the choice of handle. bróg - ainmfhocal bróg [ainmneach uatha] bróige [ginideach uatha] bróga [ainmneach iolra] bróg [ginideach iolra] (Message edited by aonghus on November 28, 2004) |
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Natalie
Member Username: Natalie
Post Number: 88 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 08:50 pm: |
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I like the name. Whenever I'm trying to remember how to do the "of the" relation, I just think of his name. I don't know why, but everyone needs some sort of memory hook. :) Natalie
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 480 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 05:17 am: |
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What the Germans call "a donkey's bridge" (The memory hook). |
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Natalie
Member Username: Natalie
Post Number: 89 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 04:14 pm: |
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lol...why do they call it a donkey's bridge!? :) Natalie
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 488 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 04:25 am: |
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Natalie
Member Username: Natalie
Post Number: 91 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 07:06 pm: |
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That's cool! I learn something new on here everyday! Natalie
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David (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 01:28 am: |
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another question: how do you pronounce Aonghus? Is it Angus or Anghus? |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 507 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 05:00 am: |
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No, it's Aonghus! Not being entirely facetious, but the "o" is definitely audible, as is the h. |
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