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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (October-December) » Archive through November 24, 2004 » Random Questions « Previous Next »

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Natalie
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Username: Natalie

Post Number: 78
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 02:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I've been thinking, and I have a couple of question which really have nothing to do with eachother but all the same, if anyone could help me, that would be very much appreciated.

How do you say "so" in Irish? As in such examples as:

We went to the mall yesterday so today we should go to the movies.
So how are you doing, anyway?

Also, how do you say "We can have..."?

Yesterday we had bolgona and rice. This time we can have hamburgers and fries.
Last time only our friends were there. This time we can have everyone there.

And last but not least, I am once again, confused with a verb tense. Now I understand what the imperative is, it's a command. Like saying: "Do this! Do that!" But what I don't understand, is if I look up the word "Bog" for example, it gives me:

Imperative
bogaim
bog
bogadh sé/sí
bogaimis
bogaigí
bogaidís

Now I understand the "bog" and "bogaigí" but I can't for the life of me figure out when I'm going to give a command to myself, or us or them. I'm sure its possible but I can't even think of an example because if I was going to tell myself to do something, I would say:

I should do this!
NOT
Do this me!

Any suggestions?

Natalie

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Natalie
Member
Username: Natalie

Post Number: 79
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 03:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

And I had another question as well which I just remembered. How do you say "at least"?

We need help with math. At least, I need help with math!
Can't you at least help me?

*By the way, I did try and look up all these words and everything but I couldn't make out what the dictionary was trying to tell me! Thanks in advance to anyone that can help me and be prepared because random thoughts like these always come in my head alot!

Natalie

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 437
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 04:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Oh dear. These are hard!

For "so" in your sense, I would use "mar sin"

Chuaigh muid ag siopadóireacht inné, mar sin ba cheart dúinn dul go dtí an bpictiúrlann inniu.

the easiest way to express "we can have" is to use "is féidir"

Last time only our friends were there. This time we can have everyone there.

An uair deiridh ní raibh ach ár gcairde ann. An uair seo is féidir linn gach duine a bheith againn ann.

That is a literal translation of what you said. But I'd probably say it differently.

As for the imperative - the first person singular is given for completeness. It is unlikely one would use it.

On the other hand "bogamis" makes sense - Let's move.

And the third person makes sense if the command is being relayed. i.e. I tell you "bogadh sé" - I'm putting the onus on you to make sure he moves.

At least is another tricky one.

You could use "ar a laghad"

But I'd more likely say something like:
Tá cabhair de dhíth orainn le mata. Nó ormsa, pé scéal é.

These are idioms, and you will have to be quite far advanced in any language before you "get" the idioms. Word for word translations will get you no where. A good, big dictionary might give you idioms, but.....

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 45
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 05:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

i made the large investment of the de Bhaldraithe hardcover English-Irish (even tho he uses that stupid first person singular instead of the infinitive which annoys me no end) and the Ó Dónaill Irish-english.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 439
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 05:11 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

The first person singular is the norm for Irish dictionaries. Sin sin! (that's that)

Some time I go I gave details of a dictionary of idioms. It only cost 10 oir so euro.

I've been long fingering buying the full edition of Ó Donaill. Níl spás ar mo leabhargáin!

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Natalie
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Username: Natalie

Post Number: 80
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 05:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh míle maith agat, a Aonghuis! (I hope the "a" thing was right) I'm sorry I picked such hard questions but when I talk to myself (or maybe the word "practice" is better) I find myself coming up with a lot of phrases that use the words "at least" or "so". I just needed a general idea of how it worked. Those little questions were just starting to eat away at me inside so thank you for answering them as you (and everyone) always do!

(Message edited by natalie on November 19, 2004)

Natalie

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 47
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 06:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

it's my understanding that the old lating dictionaries used that first person singular thing, and so others have continued to use it, even where it is counterintuitive to do so

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 442
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 09:34 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Sin mar a bhíonn an saol.

Btw Natalie - one of the difficulties I had with your questions was that as I speak English, I wouldn't have used "we can have" the way you did. (Having people around).
I'd have said "We can invite everybody" or something like that.

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Natalie
Member
Username: Natalie

Post Number: 81
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 10:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Yes, I know. To be truthful, neither would I but when I had been thinking of examples, I couldn't remember the sentence I had in my head and so I just came up with something relatively the same. I probably would've said "this time everyone can come" but all I was trying to convey was I wasn't sure how to put one preposition after another, i.e. is féidir le ("I can") with ag (for "have"). Anyway, I figured that was probably the problem.

Natalie

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 444
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 05:20 am:   Edit Post Print Post

But "ag" is not have! At least not in that sense.

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Natalie
Member
Username: Natalie

Post Number: 82
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 10:10 am:   Edit Post Print Post

What? You lost me now. I know "ag" means "at" but you use it like "tá madra agam", don't you? Which means "I have a dog". You said:

Last time only our friends were there. This time we can have everyone there.

An uair deiridh ní raibh ach ár gcairde ann. An uair seo is féidir linn gach duine a bheith againn ann.

Which you did say was literal but all the same, I am now confused.

Natalie

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 213.202.146.76
Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 10:51 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I don't think you can have a direct translation for words like that....Translate 'tá an teilifís ar siúl' for example

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Maidhc Ó G. (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 152.163.100.136
Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 11:55 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá madra agam. I have a dog. (with me)
You don't necessarily own the dog.
Tá madra liom. I have (own) a dog.

I think that's what he was pointing out.

Though, it made think. What might the difference here between,say, "Rachaidh cairde againn amárach." or "Rachaidh cairde linn amárach."
Are they interchangeable in certain situations, but not others?
Does the first say that you will be seeing friends somewhere, though not necessarily as a group. And the second that you and friends will be going together as a group?

-Maidhc.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 447
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 04:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Rachaidh cairde againn amárach. is wrong!.

Friends cannot go to us tomorrow.

Tiocfaidh cairde chughainn amárach

Rachaidh cairde linn amárach - Friends will go with us tomorrow (accompany us)


BTW Natalie - you are correct about "ag"; I just don't think of it as have because I think of the whole phrase/sentence as a unit, and don't conciously dissect it. Sorry.

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Natalie
Member
Username: Natalie

Post Number: 85
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 04:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Ok, I get it now. Sorry Aonghus. I just haven't really used "ag" for much else than "to have" so I really don't think of it any other way.

Natalie

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 213.202.150.165
Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 04:53 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

But you use 'ag' all the time, it's one of the most commonly used Irish words, you say 'ag caint, ag rith, ag canadh, ag ithe....'

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 213.202.150.165
Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 04:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Not to mention 'ag' as 'at'....'ag an siopa', 'ag an rang'...

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Rebecca (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 213.202.150.165
Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 04:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I suppose you could say, instead of 'ag' meaning 'have' that it means, 'at'

'Tá an madra ag an gcailín' - 'The dog is at the girl' (in other words, the girl has the dog)

Now that's just me trying to translate it from the meaning I have in my head...it's weird the way someone would give a translation for an Irish word and you just feel it's not right on the mark.
I was trying to translate 'faitíos' the other day and I thought, it doesn't really mean 'scared' in my head - more like 'apprehensive', it is very difficult to translate something. Some words I feel you just can't translate, you have to just live the language and understand the words, if you know what I mean

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 12.75.243.66
Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 07:48 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Bbut to me "The dog is at the girl" sounds like the dog is nipping at her rather than possession.

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 277
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 08:44 am:   Edit Post Print Post

1. Tá sé ag an siopa

Translation to English: He is at the shop.

That's simple enough.


2. Tá madra agam

Translation to English: I have a dog.

Breaking it down, we see that the word "ag" bares the meaning of "have". You could argue that it means:

A dog is at me.

And that somehow that that really means that you have a dog...


3. Táim ag crá an chailín

Translation to English: I'm annoying the girl

Again we could possibly break this down to:

I am at the annoyance of the girl
I am at the girl's annoyance


At the end of the day, ag = at; beyond that, prepositions get used in different magical ways in different languages. For instance:

Bhí mé ann le seachtain. = I was there for a week.

But we all know that "le" = "with"...

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Natalie
Member
Username: Natalie

Post Number: 87
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 04:17 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I do understand, by the way, that "ag" means different things, but when you're English, and just starting to learn a language, even though you shouldn't, you often remember words for certain contexts. But anyway, I just clued in from Fear na mBróg's #3...well...a lot of things! Don't ask, I can't explain it but something just clicked so that now I understand (a lot) about those sentences such as "Táim ag crá an chailín" because, I never thought to break it down before! Well, anyway, thank you!

Natalie



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