mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (October-December) » Archive through November 24, 2004 » It is always this hard to start out « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gillian Dalaigh (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 24.218.94.149
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 08:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

or am I just not very good at languages? I recieved TYI as a gift and I am now wading through the pronounciation guide and I don't think I'll ever get to chapter one. There is so much information there, I don't know how I am going to keep it all in my head and be able to retrieve it when needed.

I'm looking for a little learning-Irish-moral-support.

Gillian

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

James
Member
Username: James

Post Number: 69
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 08:35 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Gillian, A Chara:

Take a looke at a previous post in another thread. We've got people here who have been studying Irish for 7 years and they still would say they're "still learning!"

I've been at it for about 3 years and I am DEFINITELY still learning!

Hang in there. Keep muddling through and stay in close contact and actively involved with this site. If they can get me through it, they'll surely get you through, too!!

Le meas,

James

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pádraig_toronto
Member
Username: Pádraig_toronto

Post Number: 13
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 08:53 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Gillian, do you happen to live in an area where there is an opportunity to take classes or join a language circle ?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 41
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 10:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I'm familiar with TYI...once you've given yourself an overview of the pronunciation, move on. it's a bit of an abstract lesson and is likely harder to grasp than the actual units, and not nearly as much fun to work with...

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 38
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 02:49 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Ghillian, a chara,

I spent weeks trying to master pronunciation guides and then discovered the first time I got to hear the language spoken that none of it sounded the way I thought it did. Then I spent weeks getting over the 60 odd year old habit of English pronunciation. Trying to pronounce the letter h drove me bonkers.

Anyhow, check out something like BLAS on BBC Northern Ireland and just listen to them talk. Then forget about pronunciation guides and focus on what they're talking about. You'll have a lot more fun. And let's face it. If I weren't having fun, I'd have given up long ago.

Sláinte
http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/blas/learners/beag1.shtml

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robin
Member
Username: Robin

Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 10:33 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I've had the same problem so far. I try to memorize the pronunciation guides, then when I listen to the tapes, I find that I am way off in how things are pronounced. It doesn't help that Irish seems to have a slightly different pronunciation depending upon who is doing the talking. Maybe that's how English sounds if you hear it spoken by people from Brooklyn, Atlanta, Minnesota and Nebraska. I'm just trying to find my Nebraska Irish accent. :-)

I just checked out the BLAS site though and loved it - that will be my new routine when I come in to work in the morning and start organizing my day - I can do five minutes of listening to BLAS and practicing Irish. Good way to start the day.

Now will someone please explain to me why there seems to be so many ways to say "How are you?" in Irish? What is the difference between:

Cad é mar atá tú?
Conas thá thú? (is that right?)
Ciamar a tha thu?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

James
Member
Username: James

Post Number: 70
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 11:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Robin,

There is no difference between

Cad é mar atá tú?
Conas tá tú?
Ciamar a tha thu?

(Note a slight change to your second example)

They are all asking essentially the same thing but in different dialects.

Kind of like

How Ya'll doin'?

How youse doin'?

How are you all doing?

How're y'doin'"

Le meas,

James

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gillian Dalaigh (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 24.218.94.149
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 11:37 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks for the encouragement everyone. There is, in fact, and Irish class at my local community collage but the first session only runs in the fall so I'll have to wait until next year. I am inpatient though and thought I would use the cold weather to start my own studies. Thank you for the link to Giota Beag, it looks great and it quite helpful. I think I'll go through their lessons and then go back to TYI a little more familiar with the language. I do have one pronounciation questions. I understand that "s" is pronounced like "sh" in its slender form, yet in the word slán, it doesn't sound like "shlawn" but like "slawn". Is there a broad form of "s" that is just an "s" sound that is used in the word or do I just not hear the "sh" in slán?

Gillian

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Searlas
Member
Username: Searlas

Post Number: 20
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 11:44 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Hi Gillian,

The reason the "s" in "slán" doesn't have the "sh" sound is because the "á" is broad, thus making the "s" have the broad sound (which would be the "s" sound you're used to in English), not the slender one (which you already know is the "sh" sound).

Quick review for you:

a, o, and u make neighboring consonants broad.
e and i make neighboring consonants slender.

Regards,

Searlas

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robin
Member
Username: Robin

Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Print Post

James - You made me laugh! So which way do I say "how are you" if I want to avoid "how youse doin?" and sound more like "How're y'doin'" which is the closest to my Nebraska accent? :-)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 39
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 03:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Robin, a chara,

This comes to you from Atlanta where "How y'all doin'?" is the preferred expression. I spent several years in the hills of western North Carolina where they say "Hower youns?" I'm surprised our Carolinian flat-lander missed that one. Also, nothing against the heartland, but the fact is you're looking for the Nebraska version as Gaeilge because you love Nebraska. Maith thú! Your question may just set off a discussion (Donnybrook?) of whose Irish is the best. Personally I choose Ulster. That's why I keep going back to the Blas tapes with Fheargeal Mac Uiginn.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 44
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 03:36 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

as far as i know, the missing one is cén chaoi an bhfuil tú...Ciamar a tha thu is scottish....

i find ulster to have a somewhat convoluted and non-musical way of speaking (sorry lúcas)...i prefer connemara accent and munster constructions (sorry...conas atá tú is so much easier to teach someone than either of the other two...)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robin
Member
Username: Robin

Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 03:45 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

(Insert sigh here). OK, so, now it's going to depend on WHERE I go in Ireland as to whether I have a snowball's chance of understanding "how are you", is that what you all are telling me? Does EVERY Irish phrase have 3 alternate ways of saying it? If so, I need the three phrases for:

I'd like a beer
Where are the bathrooms?

With those two phrases, I should be set. :-)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 438
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 04:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Common phrases yes.

Niall Tobín has a very funny sketch of an American spy going to all three Gaeltachtaí and ordering a pint in each one in the local dialect. He gets spotted in Munster - because he is African American....

However
Ba mhaith liom pionta (le'd thoil)
and
Cá bhfuil an leithreas?

should see you through. They might call it "teach an asail" in some places, though.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 46
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 05:05 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

ah, the house of the ass

anyway...

think about someone coming here. they might encounter

hello
hi
'mornin'
howarya
howdy
'sup
heya
wassup
wassaap
hey
yo
good morning
howyabe
et cetera et cetera ad nauseum

and all of those could reasonably be found in use in any area of the us in which there are no cows, without any clear-cut regional markings for *most* of them

check this:
http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wrader/slang/a.html

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 440
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 05:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Agus táimse ag dul go teach an asail anois, agus ansin a luí / a chodladh / chun suain/ isteach sa leaba /isteach sa leabaig /


Slán tamall....

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 40
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 03:25 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Getting back to pronunciation, how is the "s" in the construct "Is é" pronounced? Broad or slender? Also, is "is é" the same as "sé?"

Mar sampla, is é Críost beatha.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 271
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 02:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

"Is é", that's a broad letter "s".

"'Sé" or "sé" (Either the contraction of "is é" or the pronoun "sé") is pronounced with a slender "s".

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 41
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 10:04 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat, a Fhear. That's what I thought. For once (or perhaps finally) my instincts are accurate.



©Daltaí na Gaeilge