I was somewhat disheartened this past Jamison when I learned that some of those to whom I've really looked up and assumed had many years of study more than myself, had, in fact, begun less than a year before me. They have been teaching and had the gold fáinnes for years...

So, I am letting everyone know that I want to have my gold fáinne inside of three years (dec 2007).

Anyone else want to sign on? It's like losing weight with a partner...go ahead and put your name down below...you know you want to ;o)

I'll make the pledge. I just wish that there was a textbook entitled "Gold Fainne inside three years course". Did you get any insight on how they did it?

I've been studying about 7 years, but feel I really stalled around year 3 or so...instead of one class or immersion weekend a year i'm going to try to go to them all. having someone to talk to is definitely key...

A Antaine, a chara,

If you want to follow in Paul's achievement, you might consider following in his footsteps. He quit his job and took a six month sabatical in Salthill, County Galway, to immerse himself in an Ghaeilge. I think he took courses at a school in Galway city and he spent a considerable portion of his time visiting the Conomara Gaeltacht.

I remember with jealous admiration how he came back with his cuid Gaeilge having taken a huge quantum leap forward. I think he started studying Irish after I did, but when he returned his Irish was way ahead of mine.

I also heard a story about Alexi Kondratiev, who teaches Irish in NYC. He spent six months living with a Gaeltacht family and became fluent.

You are young, single, and teach English, which leads me to infer that your summers are free. Why not invest one (or more)in living in the Gaeltacht? Dive into the language.

John Millington Synge spent a number of summers living on Inis Meáin with a Gaeltacht family. He got the story for his "Playboy of the Western World" from the local people. Maybe you could meet your muse there too?

When you come back, I guarantee you will be teaching me a thing or two, just like Paul.

I just discovered this thread which reads (on my computer) as though the initial post(s) has been lost.

Can someone briefly explain the "gold fáinne?"

Buiochas

a Phádraig a chara,

this thread is intact and contains all posted messages.

The Fáinne Óir is awarded for fluency as Gaeilge, the Fáinne Airgead for proficiency.

I don't know the history of the Fáinne, however, but I suspect others here might.

Caoimhín

(Message edited by Caoimhín on November 18, 2004)

A Lúcas...actually, it was to you and Rath I was referring...I don't know Paul...but the two of you only have a year on me.

I'd love to go to Inis Oírr for like...well...let's just say for a long time...

Problem is...Is fear bocht mé )o;

I am seriously considering that when i'm done with my masters in three semesters making U of Galway my #1 choice for doctoral program...

oh, and Lúcas...no ideas on my oil painting inscription?

a chairde!

Interesting topic Antaine! I too had that feeling at Jamison. I was sitting next to a new person at the seanclos workshop. Was impressed with his Gaelige, and then I learned that he has only been studying for ONE YEAR. .......aiiiiiiieee!!!! I swear his listening comprehension was about on my level. Most discouraging :-(
Of course, from what he said, he did it by almost total immersion. To the point where his family wanted to throw him out of the house!

I too would like to improve my gaeilge! I was thinking how much I would like my fainne oir. I wish I had some idea of what the qualifications are, and what the testing is like. Can anyone here speak to that?

Lucas? do you have your fainne oir? I am sorry that I didnt notice, but I was trying to make sense of "Seo an fear and etc" lol

BTW Lucas, the first chapter's title in Harry Potter is : An Gasuir a Thainig Slán. maybe you can use that in next years class!

slan

Cathasaigh

Maidir leis an bhfáinne:

Féach anseo http://www.gaelport.com/fainne/

A Antaine, a chara,

You don't have to take a sabbatical to work toward your fáinne óir. I found that studying every day (dare I say just half an hour) will take you a long way. Studying for a short time EVERY day is better than sitting down once a week for a 2-hour session. The other tip that was given to me was to start speaking whatever Gaeilge you have - cleachtadh, cleachtadh, cleachtadh - I can't emphasize it enough. I found if difficult to start speaking, fear of making a mistake I suppose, but you have to force yourself to do it - you literally, have to get your mouth around the language so it feels comfortable and you have to hear yourself speaking Irish. Talk to your pets, talk to yourself, but talk, and talk aloud. The immersion weekends then give you a chance to take the next step and speak with others.

Bheul, 'sé sin mo thuairim féin, ar aon chuma.

Bain triail as . . . obríonn sé!

Rath

Aonghus - I checked out the site but I am confused about something. Can you just order yourself a fainne by mail or do they require some proof that you have Irish? I remember a man some years ago who purchased a fainne oir in Dublin but barely had the ability to form a sentence. Of course, the only people he fooled were other non-speakers.

oh, Rath (btw, did you get the recipie?), I do...I always try to say it in Irish before english...to the point that everyone around me wants to hit me (not that i mind, mind you)...but I don't have anyone to correct my mistakes or ask my more technical questions on a regular basis...that's what's missing, i suppose.

I believe you can simply order one. It is a sign of your willingness to speak Irish.

I don't have one, becuase I don't wear a jacket - so I wouldn't know what to do with the fáinne.

I used to wear one in my combat jacket wearning teens, but it's hard to stick a fáinne in the Gore tex rainjacket which is my current outdoor wear.

It's a pity, because it would be a good way of recognising other people who are willing to speak the language.

oh, I would totally go like devalera and permanently affix one to every torso-covering article of clothing i have!

however, it is my understanding that it was established to mark fluency. I wouldn't order one, or a fáinne airgead...until i was awarded one or the other mind you...

to buy one would be too easy

Just wondering, has anyone one of the original big gold fáinne- the ones that had the big pin instead of the little gadget to hold it on. Also I was wondering were they really gold? If so they must be valuable now.

Maybe you could wear the fáinne on your wooly hat Aonghus, or maybe someone could supply iron on uisce-dhíonach ones for your cóta. If Antaine were to write to Parthalán (http://ga.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertie_Ahern) about it maybe it could be the start of a new Gaeltacht industry.

With these days of body piercings, there's no limit as to where you could wear it. Ouch!

Hey Kay

I actually have my aunt's fáinne, which she would have received in the late 1940's or so... and it doesn't appear to be gold...

They do advertize for an old style fáinne...so it would be interesting to compare the two.

They also used to sell a blue enamel one for absolute beginners, but they seems to have been discontinued recently.

I don't see where it describes the "cupla fócail" fáinne, but they have one, as well as an old one, and a 9ct
http://www.gaelport.com/fainne/
near the bottom of the page

A Chathasaigh, a chara,

No. I am sorry to say that I do not have a fainne oir. I tested for it a couple of years ago at the Jamison weekend and failed. I do not have plans to take the test again anytime soon.

Lúcas

what does the testing consist of?
Is it a Daltaí test?

Aonghus

Daltaí na Gaeilge administers the test to any who might apply at their immersion weekends. As I understand it, the test is supposed to determine if the Gaeilgieor in guestion has the Gaeilge to be marked as a fluent speaker.

It is an oral exam in front of three examiners. The examiners engage the Gaeilgieor in Irish converstion for about 15 or 20 minutes. In my case, we talked about vacations I had in Ireland, where my people were from, and other small talk. There were many applicants taking the exam the same weekend as I, so they had to cut short the conversation to make room for the others.

The tests occurs in the afternoon, while others are taking workshops. They announce the names of those who passed the test at the céilí that evening.

For more on the fainne óir see
http://www.daltai.com/articles/fainne.htm

wow...and you feel *you* did so poorly you don't intend to retry soon? a Dhía!

GRMA, a Lúcas. Baineann ciall leis an gcuir chuige sin thar lear ach go hairithe. Ní bheadh duine gan Gaeilge in ann ligean air go raibh gaeilge aige anseo; bhearfaí air luath go leor.

You are not told how well or poorly you did. At the ceili on Saturday the names of those awarded the fainne are called out and you are presented with it. No one is told who tested or how they did and the names of the judges are kept secret. There is no shame in trying more than once. It's like trying for a driver's license.

outrageous!!!

WHY? WOULD YOU RATHER BE KNOWN FOR HAVING TRIED 6 TIMES AND FAILING?

Go ndéana a maith duit, a Aonghuis, ach credim nach seasfaidh mé an triail choíche arís. Ní fiú tuthóg muca mo cuid Ghaeilge ar an lá a theip orm maidir leis na daoine a d-éirígh leis agus ní raibh feabhas mór a cuireadh uirthi ó shin. Is deacair go leor an Gaeilge a fhoghlaim gan brú a theipfidh orm arís agus arís eile.

As some else pointed out above, Antaine, I do not know exactly how I did on the exam. I got no direct feedback. I waited to hear my name read at the céilí and it never came. All I know is that the judges did, in fact, select winners who trully had better Irish than I have. That has been true ever since.

I wish, Unregistered Guest, that I could think of it as merely taking a test for a driver's license, but I can not. For me there was disappointment, anger, and shame associated with my failing. Even years later, this little confession is like pulling at an old scab. It still hurts. Yes, I know pride is one of the seven deadly sins. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Even worse than the injury to my vanity, the failed test began to make me think of the Daltaí weekends as a game of winners and losers, and I can not personally accept that. The weekends are too much fun for me to spoil by playing that game again.

I did not begin to study Irish for external validation, and I don't want to compete with other Gaeilgieors. I want to cooperate with them; I want to converse with them. I want to engage them in dialogue in the language of my ancestors.

I do not want to feel that miserable at a Daltaí weekend again. Pride goeth before a fall, and I just do not want to fall like that again.

So, Antaine, if the quest for the Fainne Óir inspires you to improve your Irish, do not let me discourage you. I really wish you the best of luck. Your pledge was an admirable act of courage, which suggests that your hide is tougher than mine. Go n-éirí an scrúdú leat.

(Message edited by lúcas on November 26, 2004)

(Message edited by lúcas on November 26, 2004)

A Lucas, a chara,

For what it's worth coming from one who is far from fluent, the level you exhibit in your posts leads me to suspect that a mistake was made in not awarding you the fainne óir.

Nevertheless, I believe the true judges of fluency in any language are native speakers and other well-studied individuals who need only listen to or read ones Irish to decide if it's sufficiently intelligible.

I consider myself qualified to judge ones fluency in English by this standard. And were I so presumptious at this time as to seek the fainne, I would be content to have someone such as Aonghus or Seosamh or Fear-na-brog make the evaluation.

Go raibh maith agat for all your input. You've helped a lot of people.

A Lucas, a chara,

For what it's worth coming from one who is far from fluent, the level you exhibit in your posts leads me to suspect that a mistake was made in not awarding you the fainne óir.

Nevertheless, I believe the true judges of fluency in any language are native speakers and other well-studied individuals who need only listen to or read ones Irish to decide if it's sufficiently intelligible.

I consider myself qualified to judge ones fluency in English by this standard. And were I so presumptious at this time as to seek the fainne, I would be content to have someone such as Aonghus or Seosamh or Fear-na-brog make the evaluation.

Go raibh maith agat for all your input. You've helped a lot of people.

A Phádraig, a chara,

Thank you.

You are absolutely right about native speakers. That is why I love to listen to Radio na Gaeltachta. When I can understand every word that Aine Ní Churran says on the program Barrscéalta, then I will know I am fluent. Until then, is fearr Gaeilge bhriste ná Béarla cliste.

Padraig - The judges Daltai has include native speakers and people who have studied Irish for many years. They take their responsibility seriously.Your message seems to imply that because Lucas did not get the fainne on his try some years ago, the judges must not be well qualified. I assure you this is not so. While Aaoinghus, Seosamh and Fear na brog have excellent Irish, our judges are just as well -versed.

A Lucais, a chara,

Maybe you should approach one of your teachers or one of the judges and ask where they feel you need improvement. Unless they're a hard crowd, I'm sure they'll be happy to give you some input.

Please don't let your disappointment put you off the pursuit of the gold and the pride you'll feel when you wear it.

Let's see: if I alter the clause "...a mistake was made..." to read "perhaps a mistake was made when your name was not read..." My intention was to compliment one man, not criticize others.

A Phádraig, a chara,

Thank you again for the kind words. I didn't think you were impuning the competency of the judges, but consoling a disappointed Gaeleoir. I appreciate that.

I can assure you that the three judges I had were eminently qualified to assess one's level of fluency. I had the privledge to be instructed by each of them, at one Daltaí weekend or another, and I have nothing but respect and admiration for their competency and contribution ar son na Gaeilge.

A chara, I wish I did approach one of the judges, but I was just too embarassed. In spite of my shame, I had to face one of the judges the next morning, because, this judge was also my instructor for the weekend. I had trouble looking my teacher in the face.

Irish has the right idea about emotions. Feelings like díomá and náire are "on you." In English, you are identified by your emotions when you say, "I am ashamed." It is part of me that I must control. In Irish, in contrast, one says, "Shame is on you," like a millstone, a burden over which over which one has no control.

I have gone to most of the Daltaí weekends over the last seven years, and each has been a jewel in my memory except for one. [I even enjoyed the weekend I ended up in the hospital, ach sin scéal eile.] Three years ago I failed the test and I still feel the pain. I simply do not wish to repeat that bitter experience again.

With all due respect, the quest for the fainne óir is not my quest. I did not know about its existence before I started studying Irish. It was not my objective to earn one, but my pride was seduced by it. At least my failure kept my pride in check.

Ar scor ar bith, I am trully sorry for all these sour grapes. I wish I did not feel this way ach níl neart agam air.

A Lúcas,

You should try again! Don't take it so seriously. It would be nice to have, but it doesn't change one iota how much Irish you actually know, right?

Look at it this way: you now have 3 years more knowledge of Irish than you did when your first took it. And for all you know, you were *this* close to passing, but after many discussions among the judges (and maybe a few ales!) you just missed getting it.

Getting it doesn't make or break you as a person, and it certainly doesn't affect how helpful you are here. Go for it, for the fun of it!

If you do, and you get it, I will write you into my epic, having conquered an obstacle that at first won...

Dia dhaoibh. Is mise Mícheál. I am new to the Daltaí discussion boards, but not new to Daltaí. I started studying Irish in September 2003 with mo mhúinteoir John Feeney in Danbury, CT. In 2004, I attended my first Lá na Gaeigle in Yonkers, NY, and immersion day in Esopus, NY. I also went along on the Daltaí cruise. During my first immersion weekend in Jamison, PA, in early November, I met old friends and many new, all students of the Irish Language. My wonderful local Irish language study buddies who follow these discussion boards told me about this fáinne thread. I believe that I may have been the one talking with Cathasaigh at the workshop. Her story about the guy who has been studying for around a year and whose family often says that they will throw him out sounds very much like what I had been saying. Indeed, my daughter thinks I should call myself the little gaelic man, Fear Gaelín. Do not despair, Cathasaigh. It was a pleasure meeting you and talking with you in Irish, but, as to my listening and verbal skills being on par, well, that is another tale. I know I have a long way to go before I ever would dream of walking away with a fáinne, silver or gold. It will take exactly what Rath, Lúcas, and others say: cleachtadh, cleachtadh, cleactadh. As long as it continues to be fun and worthwhile, I will continue to immerse myself in this beautiful living language. I cannot wait until the next time we gather together to practice more. Besides practice, I believe it takes a great teacher, study group, study aids, time, and my favorite scenario to imitate, An Grá Faoi Ghlas, from Turas Teanga. Slán go fóill.

Mícheál

A Lucas - I'm quite sure that one of your teachers or of the judges would be more than happy to help you. It may be hard to swallow one's pride at times but it's part of learning. And you have no idea as to how many times any other fainne wearer had to sit thru an scrúdú.

Michéal a chara, it would be An Firín Gaelach.

But you could twist it and make An Fíréan Gaelach out of it!

firín [ainmfhocal firinscneach den cheathrú díochlaonadh]
fear beag; abhac.
fíréan [ainmfhocal firinscneach den chéad díochlaonadh]
duine fíormhaith nó fíormhacánta; duine tofa, duine gan pheaca.

Go raibh maith agat, Aonghus. As I say, I have much to learn!

Mícheál

A Lúcas, a chara,
An t-iontas a bhí orm, nuair a chonaic mé do e-phost. Níl aon Fánnie Óir agat. Ní fheadfaidh sin
a bheith amhlaidh. Cheapaim riamh go Fáinne Óir agat. Bhuail tú amach mé sa ranga i gcónai. Bain triail as arís. Beidh éirigh leat.
Máirin

PS
Lúcas I would like you to correct my post if needed

Cheapaim riamh go Fáinne Óir agat
Cheap mé riamh go raibh Fáinne Óir agat. (Aimsir chaite!)

Bhuail tú amach mé sa ranga i gcónai
Bhí tú i gconaí chun cinn orm sa rang.

Beidh éirigh leat.
Éireodh leat.


(Presumptous of me to assume your invitation to Lúcás was more general. No offence intended).

GRMA Aonghus,
Fuair mé, Bhuail tú amach mé sa rang i gcóni, ó Foclór le Naill Ó Dónaill leathanach 152 buail amach.
Máirín

Féachfad air. "Set out/leave" an brí atá agamsa le "buail amach"

Éireodh leat.

Future: Éireoidh leat.
Conditional: D'éireodh leat.

Ní bhíonn saoi gan locht.

"D'éireodh leat" a bhí i gceist agam, gan amhras.

A Mháirín, a chara,

Tá buíochas agam díot dona focail cineálta ach níl mé i gcomórtas leatsa inár rang. Sin drochrud fá dtaobh den fhainne óir. Cuireann sí mac léine in éadan mic léinne.

Gabh mo léithscéal a Mhairín, feicim go bhfuil an ciall díreach san sa bhFoclóir ar "Buail amach". Ní bhíonn deireadh riamh le foghlaim.

Go raibh maith agat as brí nua a chuir ar mo shúile dom.