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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (October-December) » Archive through November 24, 2004 » Translation help: samhlófá « Previous Next »

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An_madra_rua
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Username: An_madra_rua

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 09:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia Diaobh a chairde,
I am new to this forum, although not new to Daltai. Just back from a fabulous weekend at Jamison. I had a great teacher : Lucas, who I see posts on this list.
I recently obtained a copy of Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone in Gaelic (smile): Harry Potter agus an Órchloch. I am reading it, and on the first page, I came across a word that I can't translate. Was hoping that someone here could help

The word is "Samhlófá". It is used in the following sentence:

Ba iad an drean deirenach iad a **samhlófá** rud ar bith ait na aduain leo, mar ní raibh luí ar bith acu le hamaidí den sórt sin.


Go raibh maith agat!!!

slán

Cathasaigh

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Kay
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Username: Kay

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 04:07 am:   Edit Post Print Post

This is the conditional tense of "samhlaigh", the second person (the person spoken to). In English it means "that you would think"

The whole sentence translates as - they were the last group you would think had anything odd or strange about them, as they had no tendency towards foolishness of that sort.

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Rebecca (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 213.202.150.189
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 06:31 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I would translate it more as 'you would imagine' than 'you would think'
'samhlaigh' means to imagine.
Samhlaigh gach duine ar an domhan ag labhairt i nGaeilge!
Imagine everyone in the world speaking Irish

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 249
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 11:51 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Samhlaigh most definitely means "imagine".

In this context, Think = Smaoinigh.

Conditional Tense:

Shamhlóinn ( me )
Shamhlófá ( you )
Shamhlódh sé ( Jack )
Shamhlóimis ( us )
Shamhlódh sibh ( yous )
Shamhlóidís ( them )
Shamhlófaí ( one )

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Lúcas
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Username: Lúcas

Post Number: 44
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 01:45 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Chathasaigh, a chara,

Is é do bheatha an 'blog' seo. Tá tú rochineálta. GRMMA.

Mise le meas,

Lúcas

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Kay
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Username: Kay

Post Number: 6
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Rebecca,

The correct way to say speaking Irish is "ag labhairt as Gaeilge".

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Rebecca (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 213.202.169.159
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 04:38 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Hi Kay,
In fact I have to disagree with you. 'speaking Irish' would be translated as 'ag labhairt Gaeilge'.
But I have said 'ag labhairt i nGaeilge' all my life and it means 'speaking in Irish'. I speak, mainly, the Ulster dialect and it is used commonly up there.
But thank you for bringing that to my attention.
Rebecca

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 252
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 04:10 am:   Edit Post Print Post

All of the following are valid:

ag labhairt Gaeilge = speaking Irish
ag labhairt na Gaeilge = speaking Irish

ag labhairt as Gaeilge = speaking in Irish
ag labhairt i nGaeilge = speaking in Irish


I think that many people choose "as" over "i" simply to make it as different as possible from English; it can be a bit sickening at times to hear people say, "An bhfuil sé alright?" and the likes. I suppose the worst I've ever heard is "Beidh mé ag babysiteáil".

That said, I don't have any problems with pulling a word into Irish and not changing it, particularly when the word isn't English, for instance:

An tAmbulance
An tOtharcharr

Which would I prefer? Probably the first one. As for:

gluaisteán
carr

I would quickly steer clear of the second one, trying to be as different from English as is possible, but at the same time saying:

Bhíos ag tiomáint mo ghluaisteáin

might sound as stupid as:

I was driving my automobile.

Nobody says "automobile"!

So here's how I look at it: If there's already an Irish word for it, then use the bloody thing:

Tá sé alright Tá sé ceart go leor. / Tá sé togha (not sure if I've the right spelling there).

But then I don't have any problem with saying:

Chuaigh muid go dtí an cinema.

I wouldn't say "picture house" in English, so I'm not gonna say "pictiúrlann" in Irish.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 404
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 06:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Samhlaigh does mean imagine. However when it is used with le, as it is in that sentence, is does not mean imagine as in fantasize, but as in "mind picture"

i.e. They were they least likely people to be mixed up in anything strange. (We are talking about the Dursleys here).

So Kay's translation is accurate. (Mar is gnách).

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 213.202.138.159
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 06:50 am:   Edit Post Print Post

It's difficult to differentiate between 'imagine' and 'think' even in English. "I'd imagine that they were correct." I don't think this sentence has much to do with fantasizing.

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 254
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 07:23 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I disagree.

My understanding of "imagine" is as follows:

Let's say that in your mind's eye you see a video (perhaps some-one kicking a football). That video came from either:

A) Your memory.

B) Your imagination.

So... to "imagine" in my understanding of it is to sort-of fabricate a memory and then play it back to experience it.

To "fantasize" is to imagine in a particular way. To fantasize is to fabricate a memory and experience it with the aim of getting pleasure from it (sexual or otherwise).

"think" is a different thing altogether. To "think" is sort-of a mechanical thing, ie. just using the brain to process some information. If I were asked would it rain today, then I'd look at the sky, analyze the clouds and "think" whether it would rain -- it involves no "imagining".

To imagine is to think with creativity.

A computer can think, but it can't imagine...

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 406
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 09:11 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Ach tá difríocht suntasach ann idir "samhlaigh deoch deas leanna dubh" agus "Samhlaím Fear na mBróg le leann dubh"



(Message edited by aonghus on November 15, 2004)

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 409
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 04:24 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I've checked a few dictionaries to tie this down.

Samhlaigh le is best translated as associate

So:
Ba iad an dream deirenach iad a **samhlófá** rud ar bith ait na aduain leo, mar ní raibh luí ar bith acu le hamaidí den sórt sin

They were the last people you would associate with anything peculiar or odd, because they had no inclination towards foolishness of that sort.

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Rebecca (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 213.202.148.179
Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 09:59 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Glacaim leis sin. Ní raibh mise ach ag tabhairt mo thuairimse.

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 256
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 10:20 am:   Edit Post Print Post

mo thuairim
ag tabhairt mo thuairime

mo thuairimse
ag tabhairt mo thuairimese

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Rebecca (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 213.202.148.179
Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 10:29 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Bhuel b'fhéidir go scríofá sin ach ní déarfainnse choíche é!! An bhfuil tú cinnte?

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 414
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 04:16 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Níl mise. Táim sách cinnte go n-imíonn an "e" nuair a chuirtear "se" leis an focail.

Féach freisin: http://www.google.com/search?hl=ga&q=thuairimse

agus leagan FnaB: http://www.google.com/search?hl=ga&q=thuairimese

quote:

Níor aimsíodh na focail - thuairimese - ar cháipéis ar bith.
Níor aimsíodh "thuairimese" i leathanach ar bith.



tuairim [ainmfhocal baininscneach den dara díochlaonadh]
pictiúr san aigne, oipineon (tá tuairim agam; cad é do thuairim de?); barúil (is é mo thuairim é); amhras (ní chuirfeá faoina thuairim é).

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 258
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 05:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post

http://www.aislingmagazine.com/aislingmagazine/articles/TAM31/cuirtanmhean-oiche .html

Ar an leathanach sin, tá scríofa:

"Dar láimh mo charadsa"

Léiríonn sin in aon chaoi go n-úsáidtear an fhoirm ghinideach den ainmfhocal go fóill sa chás sin.

Mar shampla:

mo chara
ag feiceáil mo charad

mo charasa
ag feiceáil mo charadsa


Maidir le "tabhairt mo thairimese" Vs "tabhairt mo thuairimse", níl soiléireacht agam -- ach níl aon fháth agam chun smaoineamh nach bhfanfadh an 'e' sin ann...

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 417
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 06:56 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Ní cloistear an "e". Féach go bhfuair google an leagan gan "e" sách minic, ach nach raibh an leagan eile le fáil.

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Alevans
Member
Username: Alevans

Post Number: 148
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 11:06 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Just to add fuel to the fire, _Learning Irish_, in Lesson 14, has "Sin é mo thuarimsa".

It's pronounced that way on the tape, too, so I don't think it's a typo.

--Al Evans

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 418
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 11:24 am:   Edit Post Print Post

But it is odd, since it seems to violate "caol le caol"

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An_madra_rua
Member
Username: An_madra_rua

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 01:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post

a chairde,
Go raibh maith mile agaibh as bhur freagrai!! Conditional mode .....figures.....I seem to have a mental block with that verb tense .

Bhí bhur "postings" an suimiúil. What indeed IS the difference between thought and imagination? Thanks esp to Aongus for the "samhlófá le" explanation. And thanks to those who mentioned Google-ing gaelic words. I google all the time, but never tried it with gaelic!

Lucas: ba muinteoir go maith tusa! Chonaic mé abairt i Harry Potter : An gasúr a thainig slán. b'fheidir leat an abairt seo a usaid i rang an bhlian seo chugainn ;-).... LOL Ni bheidh mé ag scriobh ar abairt faoi an gaoth anseo ;-)

(perhaps you can use this sentence in class next year. ....LOL I wont be writing our sentence about the wind here)

slán

Casey

PS sorry that I am so slow to answer, ach fuair mo ríomhaire tinn!

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 423
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 04:35 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá amhras orm anois faoi "ag tabhairt mo thuairime"

Tá an cheart ag FnaB sa mhéid is go leanann an TG ainm bhriaththa.

http://www.ucc.ie/acad/mi/cursai/gramadachnua/grnua4.html)

Ainm briathartha + tuiseal ginideach, ag léamh an leabhair, ag déanamh na hoibre

Níl mé cinnte conas a dtreisofaí "tuairime" sá chás sin.

Cá bhfuil na hollaimh? A Sheosaimh, an bhfuil fuascailt na ceiste agat? (Agus fuascailt "maithis" leis, más féidir!).

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Rebecca (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 213.202.163.236
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 04:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Is oth liom a rá go bhfuil an ceart ag Fear na mbróg! Má fhéachann tú ar 'google' tá 'tuairimse' ann go minic ach ní mar ghinideach. Dúradh liom gur 'ag tabhairt mo thuairimese' atá ann ceart go leor ach go seachnaítear an ginideach a úsáid. Is dócha mar go bhfuil sé chomh deacar a rá!
Ní déarfaidh mé choíche go deo arís é!

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 262
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 05:35 am:   Edit Post Print Post

ag dúnadh mo dhoras-sa
ag feiceáil mo charadsa
ag tabhairt mo thuairimese!

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Rebecca (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 213.202.163.236
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 05:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Cén fáth nach ndéarfá 'ag dúnadh mo dhoraise'??

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 263
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 05:44 am:   Edit Post Print Post


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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 264
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 05:45 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Oh! Rinne mé botún!

I'm only human, we all make mistakes!

ag dúnadh mo dhorais-se

Trying to watch the road and work the gears at the same time... still not fluent enough to pull it off perfectly every time!

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Caoimhín
Board Administrator
Username: Caoimhín

Post Number: 97
Registered: 01-1999


Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 10:32 am:   Edit Post Print Post

a chairde,

a number of messages on this thread were deleted because they were contrary to our guidelines that require that all posts be polite and related to the Irish language.

Caoimhín

Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam.



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