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Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig
Post Number: 6
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 10:31 pm: | 
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I don't want to open up that Tá/Is can of worms again, but can someone tell me if the following is incorrect, and if not, why is the verb "is" used twice in the sentence?
Mar is é Criost is beatha domsa agus ba shocar dom an bás.
buiochas |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 130
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 04:38 am: |
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It is correct.
I'll try to explain why "is" is used three times (ba is a form of is):
Is beatha domsa Críost - Christ is life for me
Mar is (Críost is beatha domsa) - For it is Christ who is life for me
I'm not sure that helps. But it's the best I can do for you. The whole phrase is the object of the first "is". |
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Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig
Post Number: 10
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 07:14 pm: |
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Thanx, Aonghus. I just can't seem to stop expecting Latinate construction in a Celtic language. I know the Vulgate has it as:
mihi enim vivere Christus est et mori lucrum
For to me to live is Christ and death a profit (gain.)
I was looking for a similar economy in the Irish. Am I correct in translating "ba shocar dom an bás" as "death would be gain for me"? |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 139
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 04:14 am: |
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Ba sochair dom an bás.
Gain is a good translation in the context. Irish has a number of pairs of words starting with "so" for good, "do" for bad.
Sochar - something good
Dochar - something harmful. |
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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg
Post Number: 109
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 06:16 am: |
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saor - free
daor - not free |
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??????? (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 01:06 pm: |
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Ba sochair...
Why is the S not lenited?
Ba shochair? |
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Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig
Post Number: 11
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 03:54 pm: |
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I think it should be. Also, Aonghus has used sochair (sochair) where the text in which I found the quote gave shocar. At least that's what I think I read. I'm away from my library and will have to look it up later. |
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Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig
Post Number: 14
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 11:49 pm: |
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Okay, this should make things more confusing:
sochar is a noun which means profit or gain
socair is an adjective which means quiet or calm
An Biobla Naofa uses sochar and it is aspirated in the phrase "ba shochar dom an bás."
What isn't clear to me is whether Aonghus misspelled shochar or intended to do something with socair. I guess socair would fit in the sentence as a predicate adjective, but both the Latin Vulgate and The New International give lucrum and gain (respectively) which are synomous with the Irish sochar.
It's only 5:00 AM in Dublin, so we'll have to wait a few hours. |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 143
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 04:05 am: |
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I mistyped.
Sochar was what I intended; |
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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg
Post Number: 113
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 08:27 am: |
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The only ever accepted case I've seen in which "ba" doesn't séimh is in the poem "Fear Lasta Lampaí":
Bá draíodóir an fear beag
a raibh an solas ina ghlac
Don't know why, poetic license? Even with that, I can see no reason for it. |
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