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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (July-September) » Archive through September 27, 2004 » Translation help « Previous Next »

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Antoin O h Amhrain (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 193.120.238.186
Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 03:51 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Ta suil agam nach fada go mbeidh si go maith aris.
'I hope that she will not be long well again' ??

Could somebody please check this!!

please excuse the lack of fadas
Le meas
Antoin

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 101
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 04:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I hope that it will not be long until she is well again.

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 70
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 04:48 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Would that not be:

Tá súil agam nach fada go dtí go mbeidh sí go maith arís.

How would one express "I hope the she will not be well for long again"? My first thought would be:

Tá súil agam nach fada a bheidh sí go maith arís.


(Okay, right now I've just copped something I think)

In the above, is "go mbeidh" an abbreviation of "go dtí go mbeidh"? So would the following be right:

I hope she wasn't let in for long.
Tá súil agam nach fada a ligeadh isteach di.

I hope it wasn't long until she was let in.
Tá súil agam nach fada gur ligeadh isteach di.
(abbreviation of: nach fada go dtí gur ligeadh)


Also, I wouldn't be surprised that in extreme cases you'd have:

nach fada a mbeidh

where the "go dtí go" has been turned into "a", but the urú is telling you what's going on. Ofcourse in places where there's no urú, eg. go dtí go ligeann, then it wouldn't become "nach fada a ligeann".

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 193.120.238.186
Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 06:19 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Aonghus,
where did you get the 'it' from in your translation and which word represents 'until'.

Le meas
Antoin

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 88
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 06:25 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Is minic a bhíonn uaigneas air.
It's often that he's lonely.

The "it" doesn't come from anywhere in particular, that's just how you say things in English, eg.: It's difficult for me to stay there alone.

Is deacair liom fannacht ansin i m'aonar.
Tá sé deacair dom fannacht ansin i m'aonar.

Tá súil agam nach fada go mbeidh sí go maith arís.

The word for "until" is "go dtí", which has been omitted from the above:

Tá súil agam nach fada go dtí go mbeidh sí go maith arís.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 123
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 08:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post

go dtí can, and is often omitted.

Sorry, Antóin; deconstruction is not my strong point. I translated an idiomatic phrase in Irish into the equivalent in English.

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Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 04:28 am:   Edit Post Print Post

That's another example of speaking "by ear." I was struggling to make literal sense of the sentence and finding it awkward and confusing until Aonghus provided the idiomatically absent go dtí. Once again, I'm sure the instruction would be more effective if I were daily exposed to the spoken language.

By the way, is it I (not me,) or is it really difficult to find persons who are even curious about Irish outside of this forum?

Pádraig

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 96
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 10:07 am:   Edit Post Print Post

As regards "go dtí". When you put in "go dtí" in a sentence like:

Tá súil agam nach fada go dtí go mbeidh sí go maith arís.

It's like saying "which" in English in the following:

I take it that that's the table which broke when John sat on it!

Sure some may say it's "correct" grammar, but it's unnatural, you'll hear people say:

I take it that that's the table that broke when John sat on it!

One day in Irish class I wrote a conversation which had the following line:

Fan thuas i do sheomra go dtí go dtagann do mháthair abhaile.

And my teacher actually told me to leave out "go dtí"! He wrote the sentence on the board and then just wiped out the "go dtí". It's also more natural to turn the likes of:

Sin an buachaill go bhfhaca mé

into:

Sin an buachaill a bhfaca mé

In the last few months I've just given up on trying to explain things, eg. why does "go" become "a" and I've just started learning what way you say things.

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Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 2
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 02:37 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

In the last few months I've just given up on trying to explain things, eg. why does "go" become "a" and I've just started learning what way you say things.


Sho nuff -- but it can still be fun and a good way of stretching the mind. Now you've started me wondering why "which" is preferable to "that" in your example. I think it has something to do with the distinction between relative and demonstrative pronouns. I have to look into it. It may shed som light on the "go" vs. "a" thing.


By the way, "sho nuff" is an example of a dialect of English and when, a native high school principal from Junaluska, NC says:

"K'ny ice youns teh kem eb har, chile, sho nuff?" it's not all that easy to understand even in the context of his preparing to hand out diplomas. And they tell me that dialect probably has its roots among the Scots circa 1650.

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 99
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 03:05 pm:   Edit Post Print Post


quote:

Now you've started me wondering why "which" is preferable to "that" in your example.


According to the British English Standard, you don't have a choice, "which" is what should be used there. To use "that" is a grammatical error.

But then you have real English, where people say "that" instead of "which" (maybe simply because it's easier to say). According to real English, "that" is what you use and "which" sounds unnatural.

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Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 3
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 06:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Well, F_na_M, I found it. And the discrepancy is between the English Standard and the Amertican Standard. The following is from The New Oxford American Dictionary:

In US English it is usually recommended that which only be employed for nonrestrictive (or nonessential) clauses: the horse, which is in the paddock, is six years old. (The which clause contains a nonessential fact, noted in passing; the horse would be six years old no matter where it was). A that clause is restrictive (or essential), as it identifies a particular thing: the horse that is in the paddock is six years old (not any horse, but the one that is in the paddock).

Going further, the New American indicates that both which and that may be relative pronouns and the distinction remains as noted above.

I agree with you that with the exception of a few purists, individuals will continue to use what feels right to them. History also shows that the majority will eventually rule, and what is today incorrect becomes correct tomorrow.

At any rate, it appears that which is right in London when that is right in New York, which is something I can live with.

I would still like to know when and why "go" becomes "a"; that is, if there's anything more to it thah "It's a language. People talk."

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 101
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 05:57 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Another one:

-I went to the the cinema today.
-With who?

Some may say that "with who" is a down right gramatical error, that it should be "with whom". But if you look at the language spoken today, I'd say about 85% of people say "who" instead of "whom". Therefore, it's ludicrious to say that "with who" is a grammatical error - it may have been at some time - but now it has full acceptance!



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