mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (July-September) » Archive through August 22, 2004 » Direct and indirect relatives « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Celtoid (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 205.188.116.143
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 07:28 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A while back, Fear na mBróg posted "Sin é an buachaill a bhuaileann Seán. (That is the boy that beats Seán.) Sin é an buachaill a mbuaileann Seán. (That is the boy that Seán beats.)" Is that correct? My books say that indirect relatives are used where there's a prepositional relationship, time, place, way/reason, or a genetive relation. I was unable to find an example like the one Fear na mBróg gave. But I couldn't think of how else to say "That is the boy that Seán beats.".

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 10:23 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Sin an buachaill a mbuaileann Seán.
Sin an buachaill go mbuaileann Seán.

The two above definitely mean "That's the boy the Seán beats". Unfortunately:

Sin an buachaill a bhuaileann Seán.

is inconclusive, as for example, you'll hear:

Cad a dúirt an buachaill?

When really it should be:

Cad a ndúirt an buachaill?
Cad go ndúirt an buachaill?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Celtoid (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 205.188.116.143
Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 07:03 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá brón orm, a Fhear na mBróg, but I fail to see how the second example is inconclusive. And I still can't find an example in my dictionary like the one you gave.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 12
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 04:43 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Here's an example:

Cad a bhuaileann an buachaill?

You can only determine from context whether that means "What hits the boy?" or "What does the boy hit?", similarly with "Chonaic mé a leabhar", you can only determine from context whether it's "his book", "her book" or "their book".

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Celtoid
Member
Username: Celtoid

Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 08:00 am:   Edit Post Print Post

But, by the example you originally gave, wouldn't "What does the boy hit?" be "Cad a mbuaileann an buachaill?"

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 17
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 08:53 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Yes, but what I'm saying is that despite that, people still do say:

Cad a bhuaileann an buachaill?

when they're expressing "What does the boy hit?". An example would be:

Cad a fheiceann an cailín?

There's no urú, so that must mean "What sees the girl?". BUT... you'll commonly see that used to mean "What does the girl see?". Context context context.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Celtoid
Member
Username: Celtoid

Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 08:30 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Maith go leor. But couldn't that also apply to "Sin é an buachaill a bhuaileann Seán."?



©Daltaí na Gaeilge