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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (July-September) » Archive through July 15, 2004 » A typo in Collins dictionary ? « Previous Next »

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gearóid (80.58.36.235 - 80.58.36.235)
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 02:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Or am I getting ahead of myself.

Under the entry for
Ó
there is an explanatory sentence
'ba dheas uaithi gloach'
which has been translated as
' It was nice of her to call ''

shouldnt this be
' It would be nice of her to call' ?

Ba ,being conditional ?

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Gleann Toite (159.134.108.226 - 159.134.108.226)
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 03:15 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Is minic a bádh long láimh le cuan.

'gloach' should read 'glaoch' (typo).

'ba' is also past tense of 'is'.

Is breá an lá é.
Ba bhreá an lá é.

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Tomás (198.22.236.230 - 198.22.236.230)
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 03:40 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Ghearóid,

As well as being the conditional, 'Ba' is also the past tense of the copula. So,

"Ba dheas uaithi glaoch." = It was nice of her to call. Nó,...

"Ba dheas uaithi glaoch." = It would be nice of her to call.

Sometimes, context is everything.

Tomás

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Gearóid (80.58.36.235 - 80.58.36.235)
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 08:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Er...... could you explain the copula bit to me , what is it what does it do etc, I am newbie to all this.

Gabh mo leithsceal

It seems wierd that this happens as it seems to me that Gaeilge has so many strange rules that seem created to avoid this type of sameness or double use of verbs.
I also found today that in do and de the third person female ( she ) has the same declination
' Di'
As I say it seems strange given that , for example, the ' a ' lenition rule changes just to diferenciate between he and she in pronouns that to have this level of plurality in meaning seems .well , careless in such a thorough grammar.

I have been accused by a couple of friends to be getting too hung up on the grammar but that is how I learn languages ,although they may have a point , if I wasnt in love with languages I think I would have been frightened off of Gaeilge by now. The rule book just seems to be so complex and duanting , but Im guessing that would be true of English for so many other people looking in from the outside

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Pádraig (4.153.219.78 - 4.153.219.78)
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 10:40 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Ghearóid, a chara,

The copula is the term used to designate the "is" you asked about in another post earlier today which resulted in a number of posts explaining the difference between "Tá" and "Is."

According to Christian Brothers Irish Grammar, there are four uses of the copula or the verb Is:

1. Classification: -- Is fear Seán -- John is a man.
2. Identification -- Is mise Seán -- I am John.
3. Ownership -- Is le Seán an leabhar -- It is John's book
4. Emphasis -- Is ag an doras atá sé -- He is AT THE DOOR.

Ordinarily example #4 would be written "Tá sé ag an doras." When the sentence is restructured using "Is," the phrase which follows the copula is emphasized.

As someone noted in an earlier post, three of the uses of "Is" involve a connection between nouns and/or pronouns. John and man. I and John. It and book. Joining nouns and modifiers appears to be the function of "tá."

I just wish it could be that simple. I also learn languages through grammar.

Is mise Pádraig

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Fear na mBróg (213.94.243.105 - 213.94.243.105)
Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 07:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Ghéaróid,

do + arán -> d'arán
do + iasc -> d'iasc
de + arán -> d'arán
de + iasc -> d'iasc

do + a + madra -> dá mhadra
de + a + madra -> dá mhadra

So as you can see, "de" and "do" definitely have a close knit relationship. As for it being in any way carless: from my experience, there's never been a time that I've been confused with it.

Also:

his laundry
her laundry
their laundry

a níochán
a níochán
a níochán


The only reason this seems odd to you is that you're so used to languages that specify whether it's "his", "her" or "their". Consider in English how we replace nouns with "it"; I'm sure if there was some language that didn't do that, then they'd look at English as strangely.
Anyway, all that need be know is that it's the 3rd person.

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Chris Dixon (194.247.95.130 - 194.247.95.130)
Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 10:36 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Ghearóid, a chara,
Nach bhfuil Spáinnis liofa agat?
Le fócal Spáinnis "su", mar shampla... resulta muy difícil saber de quién se trata, sino por el contexto en que se emplea.
Así que no te preocupes por las formas posesivas en el gaélico-irlandés - las que son mucho más fáciles de entender.
... it's very difficult to tell to whom you are referring, other than by the context in which it is used.
So you shouldn't worry about the possessive forms in Gaeilge - where the meaning is much clearer.
It's just that you're less familiar with the Gaeilge at the moment - and less used to a system where significant changes are more likely to happen at the beginning of words than in the ending.
Le gach dea-ghuí!
Chris

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Fear na mBróg (159.134.103.27 - 159.134.103.27)
Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 10:46 am:   Edit Post Print Post

In English, we sometimes actually use "him" and "her" to actually distinguish between two people. In Gaeilge, that isn't done, (sexism lol).

Take the English conversation:

I took her laundry down to the laundrette earlier, I'll take his down later.

(Here, we are actually using gender to deferentiate between two people. In Gaeilge this won't be done.)

Thóg mé níochán Mháire síos go dtí an áit níocháin níos luaithe, tógfaidh mé cuid Sheáin síos níos déanaí.

If I were asked to translate the first one into Gaeilge, I could refuse and say "I need context, I need a conversation", or I could do something like change "him" to "the boy" or "her" to "the girl". Even worse, I could explicitly specifiy the gender via:

a níochán seisean

But that wouldn't be Gaeilge, it would be like saying:

Loads of protesters are in the park

in the place of:

There's loads of protestors in the park

Sure it's intelligible, but it just ain't the way it's done.

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Gearóid (80.58.36.235 - 80.58.36.235)
Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 03:40 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Chris
, tienes razon , utilizo la gramatica española para muchos ejemplos , y me ayuda entender algunas cosas que serian mucha mas difíciles entender si no lo superia.
I think its almost a piece of advice that should be given to someone who is thinking about learning Gaeilge , go learn any other language firsts them come back LOL
However this is the first language i have begun to learn without having the benefit of a native speaker to hand or being in the country were the language is spoken. So I am finding the grammatical hurdles less easy to negotiate. I am nothing if not stubborn so I shall carry on , however I think I will try for maybe a month in the Gaeltacht , this summer , is it very expensive? Can one just turn up and rent a place ? Any places in particular people would recommend?

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Pádraig (4.154.64.52 - 4.154.64.52)
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 12:32 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Oideas Gael in Gleann Cholm Cille, Co. Dhún na nGall offers courses for groups and individuals. There's lots of activity evenings in the pubs as well, but you're likely to hear more English over the pints than Irish, unless you insist.

oidsgael@iol.ie

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 04:07 am:   Edit Post Print Post

They also have a website:
http://www.oideas-gael.com/

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Tomás (198.22.236.230 - 198.22.236.230)
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 10:23 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Oideas Gael is great, the approach to language instruction focuses on conversation. Gleann Cholm Cille, however, is not a fíor-Ghaeltacht.
Áras Mháirtín Uí Chadhain ar An gCeathrú Rua i gCondae na Gallaimhe focuses more on grammar. The teachers are excellent. Some accomodations are, some are not. It is a fíor-Ghaeltacht in that Irish is definitely the first language of the community. Most locals are more than happy to speak only Irish to you. There also are great language courses out in Dingle and on the Aran Islands. They also used to run Irish language instruction and immersion weekends in Rath Cairn in Meath outside of Dublin.



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