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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (July-September) » Suggest an Irish name « Previous Next »

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Paula Hennessy (205.188.209.12 - 205.188.209.12)
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 01:23 am:   Edit Post Print Post

We are looking for an Irish name for 2.5 acres just purchased on a bay of Lake Ontario, Canada. We tried to post the request a couple of day ago but seem to have been unsuccessful.

We won't describe the location again until we have posted successfully and have a dialogue going. Our family name is Hennessy. On the other side the family name is Moulton. Both families came from Ireland.

We are just starting to explore our Irish heritage.

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (193.1.100.104 - 193.1.100.104)
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 07:03 am:   Edit Post Print Post

An Fód Úr.

You might like 'An Fód Úr', arising from 'An tOileán Úr' (The New Island, i. e. America) and in contrast to 'fód do dhúchais' (The sod of one's heritage/nature).

Trí fhód an duine: fód do bhreithe, fód do dhúchais agus fód do bháis.
The three sods of man: the sod of your birth, your natural sod/habitat and the sod of your death.

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Paula Hennessy (205.188.209.12 - 205.188.209.12)
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 12:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks for responding. I'll give you some more info. Perhaps something else will come to mind. Actually, what you have suggested has a lot of merit.

We are retirement age, having recently married. We both had a home. This new location represents the blending of our lives in some senses... our first major project together. This will be our summer home and vacation site for extended family. We intend to spend winters in a warmer climate.

The land is on a small cove of a larger bay... a gently sloping meadow with a border of bull rushes at the water's edge. There is a lovely view southeast over a large bay to a distant shoreline. The towers of a super-clean electric power generation facility are faintly discernible on the opposite shoreline. We are retired from that industry.

The water abounds with fish and waterfowl. Terns and opsprey work the shallows. When the mist clears each morning the boats of fishing vacationers become visible.

We have planted birch, maple, spruce and cotton wood trees. The dock has been installed.

We had decided to call the site, "Hennessy Haven", but discovered in time that a close relative has just erected a sign on his home using these words! "Bay Vista" has come to mind, but gives no hint of our Irish heritage.

We will be at the new location the remainder of the week, then back to home and internet access. We will check in early next week.

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Oliver Grennan (217.155.45.122 - 217.155.45.122)
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 09:53 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I'm getting jeaous here! Sounds idyllic. You could perhaps call it "Hennessy Bay"

Bay in Irish ins "cuan" pronounced "Koo-un"
I don't know what Hennessy is In Irish though.

You mentioned a meadow. One of my favourite placenames in Ireland is "Cluain Meala" [pronounced KLOO-in MALLA" which means "meadow of honey".

Anyway, just some ideas.

Slán agus beannacht.

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 05:32 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Hennesy = Mac Aonghusa

Cuan mhic Aonghusa

Another word often used for a place of quiet & relaxation is Tearmann

Tearmann Mhic Aonghusa

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Paula Hennessy (205.188.209.12 - 205.188.209.12)
Posted on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post

The suggestions are facinating.

Could Aonghus give us the English pronunciation for his suggestions? Does the name Hennessy have a meaning in Irish? We need to be able to pronounce the alternatives to make a decision.

Could Oliver tell us where Cluain Maela is located in Ireland? If we settle on that name we might want to visit the Irish location in the future.

We wondered about incorporating "shamrock" into a name. Any suggestions for that concept, i.e. "Shamrock Bay"? What would be the translation and pronunciation.

Please forgive all the questions. Thanks for all your help.

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Maidhc Ó G. (65.128.208.103 - 65.128.208.103)
Posted on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 06:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Mac Aonghusa : Mick EEng-oos-uh.
Off the top of my head, I believe it comes from "follower of Angus".
Cuan mhic Aonghusa : Coo-uhn Vic-EEng-oos-ee.
Tearmann Mhic Aonghusa : Cha*r-uh-muhn Vic EEng-oos-ee. (a* as in 'hat')
Shamrock Bay - Camas Seamróige : Caw-muhs Sham-roy-geh.
Deora Mheala Mhic Aonghusa : Djor-ee Va*l-uh Vic EEng-oos-ee. - Sweet tears of Hennesy. (That just came to me and I thought I'd throw it in.):)
-Maidhc.

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Oliver Grennan (217.155.45.122 - 217.155.45.122)
Posted on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 10:11 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Hi Paula,

Cluain Meala is in County Tipperary, it's name in English is Clonmel. If you look for it on any search engine you're bound to find a few pictures.

Slan,

Oliver

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 07:15 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Maidhc has given you the pronunciations.
I don't do "English" pronunciations, because I'm a native speaker and find it difficult to express the sounds in english transliterations.
I pronounce it "Mac Aonghusa" ;-)

Mac Aonghusa strictly means "Son of Aonghus".

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Maidhc Ó G. (65.128.204.117 - 65.128.204.117)
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 08:36 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Wait! According to MacLysacht, the name Hennesy comes NOT from 'Mac Aonghusa', but from "Ó hAonghusa" (descendant of Angus). This may change things a bit.
Like, Cuan Uí hAonghusa : Coo-uhn Wee Hweeng-ooss-ee (oo like food).
Tearmann Uí hAonghusa : Cha*r-uh-muhn Wee Hweeng-ooss-ee.
And I'll change my own suggestion just slightly to - Deora Mheala t-Aonghuis(?) : Djoor-ee Val-uh Teeng-ish (Jooryvalla Tingish)
Sweet tears of Angus. The question mark is because I'm not sure of the genetive case for the name Aonghus. The two words in parenthesis are how I think it would appear on an Anglicized street sign. (God forbid!) I gave it this spin showing that your family was rested from their original place in Ireland and a new place was created by the tears of the original ancestor.
-Maidhc.

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 08:49 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Deora Meala Aonghusa
Cuan Uí Aonghusa
Tearmann Uí Aonghusa

NB: Deora Meala means Honeyed Tears
Deora Milse would be sweet.

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Maidhc Ó G. (65.128.200.122 - 65.128.200.122)
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 06:34 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Oops. Plurals.
And, Deora Milse : Djoor-ee Mill-sheh.
Go raibh maith agat, a chara.

-Maidhc.

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déirídh (216.42.122.118 - 216.42.122.118)
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:58 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

i've often seen it as "Ó hAonghusa."
and we can thank richard Ó hAonghusa (1720-1800) for his retirement project: setting up the now famous brandy distillery in Cognac.

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Dawn (66.19.56.171 - 66.19.56.171)
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 11:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Mhaidhc, a chara,

I notice you are representing the sound of the final "a" in deora with "ee". Wouldn't that be the pronunciation for the word deoraí (exile)?

Forgive me if I'm showing ignorance here.

Just curious,
Dawn

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Paula Hennessy (205.188.209.12 - 205.188.209.12)
Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 09:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Hello everyone! Whew! It will take us a while to digest it all but we will. We'll check again in a few days to see if anything more comes to light. I'll print this much off to share with the "Hennessys" here.

Incidently, in the previous generation to ours there were 14 Hennessys born to grandfather and grandmother. They have a yearly reunion. They seem blessed with longevity. Many of the 14 survive with the eldest survivor very active at 87.

In our first attempts to find an Irish name we borrowed books from the library and learned then about the Cognac connection :) We'll let you know the name we choose. We appreciate the input so much.

We'll write again soon.

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Maidhc Ó G. (65.128.208.62 - 65.128.208.62)
Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 08:45 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Dawn,
Nope. You're correct. that should be more like 'uh'. I was thinking of the '(e)anna', '(e)acha' rule and typed down what was heard in my head. I should've paid closer attention to what I was typing on the page. I wonder why nobody else caught it?
-Maidhc.

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Paula Henness (64.12.96.234 - 64.12.96.234)
Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 12:04 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Hello again! Well, the choice was narrowed down to "Cluain Meala" or "Tearmann". We are fascinated and challenged by the pronunciations of the Irish words. We liked the sound of "Cluain Meala" best, but the meaning of "Tearmann" is the best fit. We will keep "Cluain Meala" in mind for a future application.

Our final choice was "Tearmann Ui hAonghusa". (Can't seem to apply the "fada".) We want to design a sign for the gate, and again need your advice. The word "Tearmann" is to be emphasized on the sign with the full Irish phrase "Tearmann Ui hAonghusa" (fada included) and the meaning written in smaller, less conspicuous letters.

How should we write the emphasized word "Tearmann" so that Canadian friends and neighbours will pronounce it correctly? We don't want to offend, so which is worse...unrecognizable pronunciation or phonetic spelling? Help! Is the "r" in "Cha*r-uh-muhn" softly rolled, or sounded in the throat as Canadians normally do. We speak Spanish and some French too, so are familiar with other ways of sounding "r" depending on the language.

Would "Charumun" be appropriate as the emphasized phonetic word on the sign, or is there a better spelling, or should we use the actual phonetic spelling we referenced in the previous paragraph? We have learned by experience that any guessing about languages can innocently lead to a very nasty or embarrassing word. We certainly do not want that :).

The lettering for the sign will be something like this, depending on your final editing advice.

Tearmann Ui hAonghusa
CHARUMUN (centered)
Hennessy Quiet & Relaxation

The shape and colouring of the sign should have an Irish emphasis. What motifs would be appropriate as far as general shape and border design? It will need to be well-known motifs to have significance for the average Canandian of unexplored Irish heritage. At the same time it should please the well-informed as well.

And, after all your help, if you are ever travellig the north shore of Lake Ontario and come across the final sign design, be sure to knock on our door :)

We look forward to your input.

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 12:23 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Tearmann Ui Aonghusa - no "h"

I'll leave the pronunciation to those who do such things

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Dawn (66.19.56.107 - 66.19.56.107)
Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 01:11 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Of course it is just my personal preference, but I would leave the phonetic spelling off and use it as a learning experience for my friends. :) I don't see what is offensive about that. It will make a good topic of conversation too.

If you want a phonetic spelling, I would recommend CHAR-uh-muhn. Unfortunately there is no good way to write out the short A sound phonetically. According to my dictionary, the R is broad, but it sounds more natural to me for it to be "tapped" or slightly rolled, as you said. Ui Aonghusa (the fadas aren't working for me either today) I can only guess at. "ee AYNG-uh-suh"? In any case, wait for someone more informed than I to confirm what I've said!

A couple other words that can be used for tearmann are "refuge" and "sanctuary".

I hope I'm not repeating anyone. It's been awhile since I read this thread.

-Dawn

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Paula Hennessy (205.188.209.12 - 205.188.209.12)
Posted on Monday, September 08, 2003 - 02:05 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thank you Dawn and Aonghus.

Regarding the "r" I am accustomed to a "tapped" "r" so hopefully we will get it right. Perhaps we should emphasize the Irish and give the complete pronunciation in less obvious lettering... Unless we give some indication I fear the locals will always assume it is read as English and the lovely sound of the word will be lost.

Your alternate meanings for "tearmann" are especially significant. Our family was involved in fitting, delivering, and utilizing two small yachts in church missionary work on the Upper Amazon River between 1978 and 1987. The vessels were christened Refuge I and Refuge II (in Spanish). Now we are really pleased with our choice of "tearmann"!

Thanks so much.

Paula Hennessy

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