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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (April-June) » The many versions of "little" « Previous Next »

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Marilyn (69.199.152.84 - 69.199.152.84)
Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 04:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

We are planning on calling our summer home on Prince Edward Island "Little Baltimore" after our favourite stomping ground in South West County Cork, Ireland. However I'm unsure of whether that would be one of the following or not:

Beag Beal-ti-mór
Mion Beal-ti-mór
Minoúr Beal-ti-mór

Come to think of it - isn't "mór" the word for great, grand, large? Therefore wouldn't any of the above phrases be oximorons? Help!

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Jonas (213.243.178.60 - 213.243.178.60)
Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 05:06 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Great idea for the name! I'll do my best to help you with it. All the alternatives you have given are completely wrong. The worst error is that an adjective should come after what it describes. Also, the word minoúr is terrible. I know that it can be found in official dictionaries but it would never be heard from an Irish speaker - for "little" you'd definitely want beag.

Then, the Irish name for Baltimore is Dún na Séad. This should be great news for you, since you get rid of the mór just before beag. In other words, "Little Baltimore" translated into Irish is:

Dún na Séad Beag

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Marilyn (69.199.152.84 - 69.199.152.84)
Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 05:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Fantastic Jonas. Thank you so much. I have seen Baltimore referred to as Dún na Séad often, especially in reference to the O'Driscoll castle by that name located there in the town square. But in many other cases it's been shown as Beal-ti-mór which may explain the different meanings that have been given for it's name over time!

Instinctively, I was also aware that the adjective should come after which is where my confusion came in with adding beag after -mór. I thought it was contradictory so at least that guess was right!

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 04:40 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Or more naturally
Dún beag na Séad

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Fear na mBróg (159.134.102.234 - 159.134.102.234)
Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 05:41 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Dar leis An bhFoclóir Beag:

séad [ainmfhocal firinscneach den tríú díochlaonadh]

séad [ainmneach uatha]
séada [ginideach uatha]
séadaí [ainmneach iolra]
séadaí [ginideach iolra]


Cén scéal le:

Dún na Séad

?

In aon chaoi, mura bhfuil sé cheana féin, is ceart go mbeadh "beag" sa tuiseal ginideach.

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 07:06 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Placenames get corrupted.

A quick google gives the name of the Castle as "Dún na Séad", castle of the jewels.

Modern spelling of that would be "Dún na seoide"

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 07:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post

On the other hand, Onomasticon Goedelicum gives

b. an tighe mhóir; Baltimore, in S. c. Cork.

Which would return us to the problem of mór/beag...

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Fed Up Paddy (213.94.237.177 - 213.94.237.177)
Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 11:51 am:   Edit Post Print Post

In no particular order, the online squabbles of Fear na mBróg, Aonghus and Jonas are tiresome. Point-scoring like little kids, you do no honourable service to the Irish language. Give up the infantile squabbling and stick to being helpful.

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Fear na mBróg (213.94.241.214 - 213.94.241.214)
Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 01:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

That's what we do here, get used to it.

I don't claim to do service to the Irish language, just as how I reply to you now even though you're a ignoramus.

Stick to being helpful to whom? You? My rates begin at €30.00 per hour if you're interested.

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Pádraig (4.154.92.8 - 4.154.92.8)
Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 03:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

If they're "squabbling" it must be in Irish, and I must be missing it for want of expertise. As for the English interchanges, I find them very helpful.

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Gan Ainm (67.101.198.207 - 67.101.198.207)
Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 06:17 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Please, enough already.

Mar a deir Daltai na Gaeilge: "Táthar ag iarraidh ort go mbeadh do chuid teachtaireachtaí múinte agus bainteach leis an nGaeilge.

We do request that you keep your postings polite and related to the Irish language. "

Is mise,
Gan Ainm

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Cormac Ó Donnaile (212.209.194.26 - 212.209.194.26)
Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 03:44 am:   Edit Post Print Post

afaik, since Baile an Tighe Mhóir literally means Settlement of the Big House maybe it would be fun to call your place Baile an Tighe Bheag or settlement of the little house. It also sounds nice to say: (pron. BAL-ti-vug).

note: the "bal" in baltimore comes from "baile", not "beal".

/cormac (a learner, so i could be completely wrong...especially about the grammer and pronouncation)

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Marilyn (142.139.0.69 - 142.139.0.69)
Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 08:04 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Thank you for another version Cormac. I like this one as well. So, now we will choose between "little castle (or fort) of jewels" and "settlement of the little house". Both seem very appropriate.

I knew I came to the right place for advice! I appreciate all the suggestions.

Go raibh maith agat.

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