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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (April-June) » Irish for "to"? « Previous Next »

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Celtoid (205.188.116.136 - 205.188.116.136)
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 08:02 am:   Edit Post Print Post

When does one use go/go dtí, and when does one use chun/ag? Are "Tá mé ag dul ag an mbanc." and "Tá mé ag dul go dtí an banc." both correct?

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Fear na mBróg (159.134.109.49 - 159.134.109.49)
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 08:20 am:   Edit Post Print Post

do = to/for

Rinne mé cupán tae do Sheán.
I made a cup of tea for Seán.

Thug mé an cupán tae do Sheán.
I gave the cup of tea to Seán.

"do" means "to" when there's no movement.

---

go, chuig = to


Chuaigh mé go Corcaigh.
Chuaigh mé chuig Corcaigh.

Chuaigh mé go dtí an siopa.
Chuaigh mé chuig an siopa.


I've seen allot that sometimes people use "go dtí" even when there's no "an", I'm not sure about the actual gramatical rule on that one!

---

ag = at

Tá peann agam.
A pen is at me.
There's a pen at me.
I have a pen.

Tá sé ag an mbanc.
He's at the bank.
The bank has him.

---


Tá mé ag dul ag an mbanc.

I'm going at the bank. ? ? ? ?

If I tried to squeeze a logical meaning out of that, I'm probably get:

The bank has me going.

---

Tá mé ag dul go dtí an banc.
I'm going to the bank.

Tá mé ag dul chuigh an mbanc.


"go dtí an" doesn't stick an urú on the noun as is normal. It doesn't even put the noun in the dative case.(Bear with me...). Here's two nouns:

An banc
An bhéim

"banc" is masculine.
"béim" is feminine.

In the above, the nouns are simply said to be in the nominative case. If you want to say "the thing", you might need to stick a séimhiú on it; so you'll need to know whether the noun is masculine or feminine.

This isn't so in the Dative case:

ar bhanc
ar bhéim

ag an mbanc
ag an mbéim

Yet:

go dtí an banc
go dtí an bhéim

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 08:50 am:   Edit Post Print Post

"Tá mé ag dul ag an mbanc" and "Tá mé ag dul go dtí an banc" will be heard equally frequently; I have a feeling that there is a question of dialect involved, but I'm not sure which is which.

As for the difference between go/go dtí and chun/ag - it depends!

I tend to use go dtí more.

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Chris Dixon (81.79.140.254 - 81.79.140.254)
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 01:36 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A chairde,
In Ulster Irish, there is a fairly systematic distinction in usage between go/go dtí/chuig:

go - to (motion towards - no article)
e.g. Chuaigh mé go hAotroim - I went to Antrim.
go dtí - to (motion towards - with article)
e.g. Chuaigh mé go dtí an siopa - I went to the shop.
chuig - to (either to an event or to someone's house or place of business - as in French "chez")
e.g. Chuaigh mé chuig ceolchoirm - I went to a concert.
Chuaigh mé chuig an dochtúir - I went to the doctor's.

I say fairly systematic because I'm not convinced that native speaker use always reflects this usage, but certainly I was taught to follow these "rules" as a learner and they would never let me down - and they haven't yet.
Le gach dea-ghuí!
Chris

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Fear na mBróg (213.94.241.193 - 213.94.241.193)
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 04:30 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Well I definitely see qualified nouns worked with as so:

Chuaigh mé go hÉirinn
Chuaigh mé go hAontroim
Chuaigh mé go Gailimh
Chuaigh mé go Sasanna

These are the definite article, the an is implied.

And I've seen everyday definite nouns as follows:

Chuaigh mé go dtí an siopa
Chuaigh mé go dtí an tobar

And then you have:

Chuaigh mé chuig ceolchoirm
Chuaigh mé chuig an doctúir

--

Looks to me like you use "go" with actual fully-fledges places:

Antroim
Gailimh
Éire
an siopa
an tobar

And "chuigh" with events, people, shows, demonstrations, rather than places:

an doctúir
ceolchoirm U2
cóisir Phóil

Tar chugamsa, a mhic.

--


But then you hear:

Chuaigh siad go dtí Sasanna.

? ? ? ?

--

We need someone fluent to clue us in!

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Celtoid (205.188.116.136 - 205.188.116.136)
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 09:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá mé ag dul ag an sanatóir! Fear na mBróg, "ag" is used in Conamara (the dialect taught in Ó Siadhail's "Learning Irish") instead of "chuig".

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Celtoid (64.12.116.136 - 64.12.116.136)
Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 07:30 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá ceist eile agam. What's the difference between "chuig" and "chun"? How do you know when to use one or the other?

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 09:12 am:   Edit Post Print Post

An Foclóir Beag

Is foirm de chuig atá chun.
chuig [réamhfhocal]
go, go dtí, i dtreo (dul chuig, chun, duine); maidir le, i dtaobh, i leith (go maith chuig Laidin, chun Laidine); le haghaidh (réidh chun bainte; cad chuige é sin?); oiriúnach i gcomhair (má bhíonn an lá chun féir); i mbun (cliste chun oibre); ar tí (bhí mé chun é a rá léi).

Foirmeacha
chucu [réamhfhocal, an tríú pearsa iolra]
chugaibh [réamhfhocal, an dara pearsa iolra]
chugainn [réamhfhocal, an chéad phearsa iolra]
chugam [réamhfhocal, an chéad phearsa uatha]
chugat [réamhfhocal, an dara pearsa uatha]
chuici [réamhfhocal, an tríú pearsa bhaininscneach uatha ]
chuige [réamhfhocal, an tríú pearsa fhirinscneach uatha ]
chun [réamhfhocal]

Not much help, I'm afraid. I don't know any rule; and I think usage varies.

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