mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (April-June) » Question about séimhiú « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rómán (81.7.96.237 - 81.7.96.237)
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 05:57 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia dhaoibh!

I am trying to understand one peculiar phenomenon about séimhiú. As you all know the negation particle causes lenition of the next word. So far no controversy. But then I came across the idiom "Is maith liom bla bla bla". When you negate this sentence you have "Ní maith liom ...". My question is shouldn't you have "Ní mhaith liom..." - or there is something more to it I don't know fós?

Buíochas in advance

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Larry (217.42.48.180 - 217.42.48.180)
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 06:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia is Muire duit, a chara,

"maith" is an adjective, not a verb. You're correct when you say that the negative marker "ní" causes séimhiú in certain following verbs but not in this case.

Le meas,

Larry.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear na mBróg (159.134.109.222 - 159.134.109.222)
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 06:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Not because it's an adjective, not because it's not a verb, not because it's not a noun.

It's a different word!!!

Dúnann sé an doras.
Ní dhúnann sé an doras. He doesn't close the door.

Is buachaill é.
Ní buachaill é. He isn't a boy.

Just like in english, the word "morning" can mean early in the day, or it can mean crying over a lost loved one. "sole", "soul", although spelled differently, are pronounced the same, different words though.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Celtoid (64.12.116.136 - 64.12.116.136)
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 07:16 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Rómán, I think Fear na mBróg is talking about the word "ní". Yeah, that was confusing for me at first too. One "ní" is the negative form of the copula (linking verb), the other negates the verb.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear na mBróg (159.134.109.222 - 159.134.109.222)
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 07:20 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat as ucht do shoiléirithe, a Cheltoid.

Similarly, one can say that "go" urúz:

Dúirt sé go ndúnfadh sé an doras

But then you have:

Chuaigh sé go Dún na nGall


Focail Difriúla.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

1234 (172.190.181.105 - 172.190.181.105)
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 07:33 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Hi Rómán,
Both good points above -
You have there a Copula type sentence
as opposed to the regular verb structure..

check this link for some Copula exercises

http://www.arts.ulster.ac.uk/langlit/GA/CAPAILL/index.htm

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rómán (81.7.96.237 - 81.7.96.237)
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 07:55 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A chairde!
Buíochas everybody I see the point. So one more case of homophony in Gaodhluinne. Do you know these two "ní"'s were spelled differently under old spelling rules?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear na mBróg (159.134.100.79 - 159.134.100.79)
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 09:57 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I've no idea. A spelling change is only necessary obviously when there's a difference in sound, duh!, but also when there's a totally different stress. For example:

I went to the shop too.

In a txtmsg, if I wrote:

I went 2 d shop 2.

The person would read it once and be like "wat?", but then re-read it, changing the stress. Thus, in a txtmsg, I write:

I went 2 d shop too.


Mo mhéidse le meas

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Carroll (194.145.134.97 - 194.145.134.97)
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 12:53 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

If someone couldn't understand what you were saying by 'I went 2 d shop 2' in context, I doubt very much they'd have a good enough grasp of the english language to be able to spell 'Wat?'

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear na mBróg (159.134.109.2 - 159.134.109.2)
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 03:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

It's not that they don't understand, it's that when they read it in their head they don't use the right kind of stress on "too". They then re-read properly. To avoid this, I write "too".


I walkd 2 d shop yestrday.Mark came 2,he was unconcious for a few mins.


How many people read that as "Mark came too"?!

An bhfaigheann tú mo phointe?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rómán (81.7.97.244 - 81.7.97.244)
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 04:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

U no wat. I c ur point. But me myself i wud never rite "i walkd 2 d shop", becoz this iz not the wei i pronowns it. "the" is "the" and "de" is "de". Remember, I am not Hiberno-English. To be serious, I have a new question. You all probably know there are 3 ways to name the Irish language - one for each dialect. The oifigiuil "Gaeilge" reflect pronounciation of Connacht and Donegall (to lesser extent, cause they say Gaeilic more or less), Munsterese says smth more of the kind of "Gaodhluinne" or "Gaelainn". But both this spellings have a broad "l" although the pronounciation is clearly slender. Have you come across smth what is close to those two, but is more accurate in transcribing pronounciation? Buíochas in advance.

Other, unrelated thing. I have a name in my book "Déaglán" without pronounciation given. I am specifically interested in "éa" there. Is it more like "éa" in "Béarla" or "téacs" - the answers of those, who based their way of speaking on Munster/West Kerry are appreciated.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear na mBróg (159.134.102.53 - 159.134.102.53)
Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 03:13 am:   Edit Post Print Post

In Ireland, we pronounce "th" as a t or a d. For example, I would say "tanks for that", or "I tink he's gone", "I went to de shop", "the birt of the baby". "one, two, tree". That's why I said "2 d shop".

As for "éa", they're the same in "Béarla" and in "Téacs", it's just that when a vowel comes before an 'r', the sound is a bit funny, but say it slowly and clearly and you get "Bayerla". "éa" is just a broad form of "é". Same sound.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rómán (82.135.131.160 - 82.135.131.160)
Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 04:23 am:   Edit Post Print Post


Quote:

In Ireland, we pronounce "th" as a t or a d


I know that, but you will excuse me if i am not going to copy that? :)


Quote:

they're the same in "Béarla" and in "Téacs"



Not in Munster. As I am trying to imitate southern pronounciation, in "Béarla" they say something like ia+a ("ia" in "Dia", "a" in "cat"). In "téacs" normal long "e" is pronounced (as is in "téann" as well). That is why I am asking about "Déaglán".

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear na mBróg (159.134.102.53 - 159.134.102.53)
Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 04:39 am:   Edit Post Print Post

In that case, like "téann":

Dayglawn

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Carroll (212.2.168.219 - 212.2.168.219)
Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 04:42 am:   Edit Post Print Post

My usual protocal when informing friends that another friend had regained consciousness is to call them, or to leave a group voicemail.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear na mBróg (159.134.102.53 - 159.134.102.53)
Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 04:44 am:   Edit Post Print Post

very good, now hurry up and eat your dinner

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 07:55 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Rómán: I have seen contempary speakers of munter Irish use Gaolainn as a modern spelling.
For example, there is an organisation in Co Waterford called: "Port Láirge le Gaolainn"

A web search for "gaolainn" yields about 100 hits.

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.


©Daltaí na Gaeilge