How do I use the declension tables in my Irish dictionary? The dictionary doesn't tell me how, and my self teaching courses don't even mention declension. I have a theory, but I'm not sure it's correct. Can anyone help?

Can you give me an example of a table from your dictionary? Or tell me which dictionary it is?

I'll bet you mean the noun declention tables. They show how to change nouns to their plurals as well as their genetive forms. Throughout your dictionary, you'll see nouns shown as nm1, nf2, etc. these are the declentions of the nouns. You can then go to your table, and going by the spelling patterns, conjugate the noun to the form you need for the desired usage.
For example: fuinneog nf2
sing.nom. fuinneog
sing. gen. fuinneoige
pl.nom. fuinneoga
pl.gen. fuinneog
In this example, you'll notice that to reach the plural of fuinneog, you simply add an 'a' to the end of the word. And to reach the singular genetive of fuinneog, you slenderize the final consonant and add an 'e'.
First declention - mostly just slenderization to reach sing.gen.
2nd. slenderize + 'e'.
3rd. broaden or 'un'slender + 'a'.
4th. the gen. is the same with sing for sing. - spelling change to reach plural - and plural gen. is the same as plural nom.
5th. irregular. With these they'll appear simply as nm. or nf. (They do in my dictionary, anyway.) Different vowel combinations recieve different spelling changes to reach their desired results.
I hope this helps a little.
Maidhc.

Oh my god! Go raibh maith agat to you Celtoid for asking this question and to you Maídhc for the helpful answer. I've been trying to figure this out for a while.

Don bheirt atá faoi iontas ag an gcleasaíocht seo go léir - to those who may be somewhat in awe of the whole matter of these tables - I'm posting some older posts by myself and the other Seosamh. Don't be too worried by it's size. It is the same stuff being repeated a few times. Take a trip down through it and see what you pick up from it.

Slán go fóill,

S. Mac M.

To help on genitive, I'm including some old posts below.

We are left with a basic four ways of making genitive in Mod. Irish. Considering the fact that some nouns remain the same, this then leaves us with five declensions:

1. c > c', as in doras > dorais;
2. c > c'+e, as in fuinneog > fuinneoige;
3. c' > c+a, as in doirseoir > doirseora;
4. ín (or) v > ín (or) v, (i.e., no change);
5. in/il/ir (and others!) that, sometimes, gain a consonant as in traein > traenach, triail > trialach, cathair > cathrach.

Examples of no. 4: cailín & gloine.

Slán go fóill a Sheosaimh.

Older posts on the same:


Genitive

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The Discussion Boards of Daltaí na Gaeilge: Archive: Genitive
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By JP () on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 10:34 am:

What is the "genitive?" Do other languages have this feature?


By Seosamh (1cust35.tnt52.nyc3.da.uu.net - ) on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 01:07 pm:

The long and the short of it: a noun that modifies another noun is in genitive relation to it. Most languages (I wanted to say all but then I thought of one possible exception) therefore have a genitive function. Many languages have special forms to indicate the genitive. A great many Indo-European languages, like English (barely)and Irish, are like this.

If you say 'my father's coat', 'father' is in genitive relation to 'coat'. The first noun modifies (or limits) the second. 'Sheila's new job' -- 'Sheila' is in the genitive. Other examples: 'a winter coat', 'a wool coat', 'a savings account', 'a milk carton', 'a summer day'. In English, we usually indicate the genitive by word order but we still show the genitive by ' 's ' too.

In Irish, there is often no special genitive form: tae, caife, bainne (tea, coffee, milk) stay as is: pota tae, muga caife, bosca bainne. Many others, however, do change in form:

an leabhar (the book), but: céad leathanach an leabhair (the book, the first page of the book)

Síle (Sheila): post nua Shíle (Sheila's new job)

fíon (wine): buidéal fíona (a bottle of wine)

biabhóg (rhubarb): gas biabhóige (a stalk of rhubarb)

Note that the describing (i.e., genitive) noun precedes the noun in English but follows it in Irish.


By Seosamh Mac Muirí (caroldowling.staff6.ul.ie - ) on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 02:23 pm:

JP, a Chara,

If some of the jargon causes a problem, which it can, take a dip into the free on-line dictionaries. This is from 'A Web of Online D.s' :
...............................................
of, relating to, or constituting a grammatical case marking typically a relationship of possessor or source -- compare POSSESSIVE
2 : expressing a relationship that in some inflected languages is often marked by a genitive case -- used especially of English prepositional phrases introduced by of
- genitive noun
..........................................

So, JP's car = Carr JP.
(Your ending 'P' shows no inflection of course, but we still regard it as being 'in genitive'.)

But, an carr = the carr.

And JP of the car,
i.e. the JP gal/guy/fellow/stócach/girseach who is the owner of the said car = JP an chairr.

Those 'rr's are sounded and written so, i.e. they are inflected to let the listener know of this JP-car relationship. The 'i' which is inserted, shows us the change in quality of what is sounded. Sin agat an tuiseal ginide! That's the genitive, and nothing more.

There are a few other ways to make a genitive :
.............
Ciall = sense.

mórán céille = a lot of sense.
..............................
dochtúir = a doctor.

saol dochtúra = a doctor's life (or = life of a doctor)
..........................................................
geata = a gate.

druidim geata = closing of a gate (or = a gate's closing)
.......................................................
cathair = a city.

lár cathrach = a city center (or = center of a city)
.....................................................

Notice that 'geata' behaves like your 'P'; no change! That is to say, in total we are talking about four changes. The four changes to remember are :

carr > cairr
ciall > céille
dochtúir > dochtúra
cathair > cathrach

We can make those simple :

(And remember the none-change, 'geata', 'JP'.)

...r > ...ir
....l > ...ile
......ir > ......ra
.....ir > ....-r+ach

Simpler still, let C = any consonant :

> ..iC
> ..iCe
> ..Ca
> ..-+C


That's the guts of the Irish system. Four changes and a none change = Cúig Dhíochlaonadh = 5 declensions. Maybe 60% of Irish nouns behave like the first two, First and Second. Just look at those two and let the others come to you as you meet them.
.......................................................

While those rules can help to understand plurals, it is best to just forget them. That is, forget about declension when you cross into plural. Just think about two things : Weak and Strong!
For genitive in plural, we mostly, look to what we call 'strong'/tréaniolra and 'weak'/lagiolra plurals.

Weak means that it cannot maintain its plural form in plural genitive. It reverts to another form. (which happens to be singular!) Strong, of course, can keep its plural form through any mayhem of case.

Now, you don't have to remember the Strong plurals! Howcome? Just remember that there are two weak plurals; the narrowing of consonant type, like carr > cairr, and the addition of a final '-a' type :

...+a (as in 'fuinneog' > 'fuinneoga' = windows)

...iC (as in 'cairr' = cars)

Hence :

fuinneoga = windows;
plabadh fuinneog = slamming of windows;
plabadh na bhfuinneog = the slamming of the windows.

cairr = cars;
luas carr = speed of cars;
luas na gcarr = the speed of the cars.


You don't have to learn the others. You know if they're not weak, then, (difficult, isn't it?), yes, they're strong and can maintain their plural form :

na ceachtanna = the lessons;
foghlaim na gceachtanna = the/ learning of the lessons.

etc.

Some of us like to allow irregularity into the system, if it's there already in areas of speech, so, if JP has more than one carr and I'm describing JP as such :

JP na gcarr = JP of the cars;

or, if I'm into strong plurals today, to accomodate a listener :

JP na gcarrannaí = JP of the cars.

Both are fine.


Go n-éirí an Ghaeilg leat

Go raibh maith agaibh. Yeah, it was the noun declensions I was wondering about. My theory was correct, but I sometimes have difficulty matching up a word with it's equivalent in the table. I'll post the next example I find.

Maith an obair ansin, a Sheosaimh.

But there's more to it and this is how mise learned it.

First of all, you take a word:

blas

And you determine whether the last vowel is "broad" or "slender", which tells you whether it's masculine or feminine and thus what way you work with it:

an blas
údar an bhlais

na blais
údar na mblas

There's only two ways to work with a noun: the masculine way or the feminine way, and you determine which one by the sound of it.

Thus, when I hear:

breis

I know straight away that I'm going to say:

an bhreis

timpeall na breise

na breiseanna

timpeall na mbreiseanna


-------------


That's how I look at it, two possibilities...

Outside of that, there is special endings:

an bhróg --- na bróga --- dath na bróige --- dathanna na mbróg

an choinneáil --- na coinneálacha --- údar na coinneála --- údair na gcoinneálacha

an sionnach --- na sionnaigh --- údar an tsionnaigh --- údair na sionnach
an bhaisteach --- na baisteacha --- údar na baistí --- údair na mbaisteach

an múinteoir --- na múinteoirí --- ainm an mhúínteora --- ainmneacha na múinteoirí
úinéir
báicéir
doctúir

an chodarsnacht --- na codarsnachtaí -- údar na codarsnachta --- údair na gcodarsnachtaí
an dornálaíocht --- na dornálaíochtaí -- údar na dornálaíochta --- údair na ndornálaíochtaí

an mhainistir --- na mainistreacha --- lár na mainistreach --- lár na mainistreacha

an teorainn --- na teorainneacha -- údar na teorann --- údair na dteorainneacha

an cailín -- na cailíní --- ainm an chailín --- ainmneacha na gcailíní

an gadaí --- na gadaithe -- ainm an ghadaí -- ainmneacha na ngadaithe

an bhialann -- na bialanna -- timpeall na bialainne -- timpeall na mbialann

an fhéachaint -- na féachaintí -- údar na féáchana -- údair na bhféachaintí


I think that's pretty much all the special endings.

-------


So when I hear a word, here's how my thought processes work:


STEP 1: Has it got a special ending?
If yes, then work with it as such.
If not, go onto Step 2.

STEP 2: Is the last vowel "broad" or "slender". If broad, then it's masculine and is done like "blas", if slender, then it's feminine and is done like "breis".


----


Outside of that, I just call everything else irregular, for example:

The meat = An Fheoil

I would assume that it's done as so:

an fheoil --- na feoileanna --- blas na feoile --- blais na bhfeoileanna

But in actual fact it's done as follows:

An Fheoil --- na feolta -- blas na feola -- blas na bhfeolta


---------


Once you figure out the "rules", it becomes allot less frustrating, you no longer will be saying to yourself "BUT HOW THE HELL WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW IT'S FEMININE!!".


Go n-éirí an t-ádh leat.


Mo mhéidse

Is fearr do chóras ná buille faoi thuairim ach níl ann an méid sin.

Eascraíonn córas den chineál sin as simpliú teagaisc ar an dara leibhéil. Níl de sprioc ag an gcóras sin ach go dtabharfadh céatadán inghlactha na cosa leo tríd an ardteist (: go dtuigfidís an chéad díochlaonadh agus 80% den dara díochlaonadh lena dtabhairt slán).

Mar achoimre ar chóras cuimsitheach ainmfhocail na Gaeilge agus ar mhaithe le soiléire arís (consan ar bith = C):

Uimhir Uatha:

1. > ..iC
2. > ..iCe
3. > ..Ca
4. gan athrú
5. > ..-+C

Uimhir Uatha:

Lagiolraí:
a) > iC
b) +a

Tréaniolraí:
Gach iolra nach lagiolra é.

(Is é díochl. 5. +c an t-aon bhall lag sa chóras tharla nach léiríonn sé glac ainmfhocal gur iarsma an s-tamhain agus an r-tamhain iad.)

An dara 'Uimhir Uatha' le cealú thuas.

Is fearr do chóras ná buille faoi thuairim ach níl ann an méid sin.

Eascraíonn córas den chineál sin as simpliú teagaisc ar an dara leibhéil. Níl de sprioc ag an gcóras sin ach go dtabharfadh céatadán inghlactha na cosa leo tríd an ardteist (: go dtuigfidís an chéad díochlaonadh agus 80% den dara díochlaonadh lena dtabhairt slán).

Mar achoimre ar chóras cuimsitheach ainmfhocail na Gaeilge agus ar mhaithe le soiléire arís (consan ar bith = C):

Uimhir Uatha:

1. > ..iC
2. > ..iCe
3. > ..Ca
4. gan athrú
5. > ..-+C

Uimhir Iolra:

Lagiolraí:
a) > iC
b) +a

Tréaniolraí:
Gach iolra nach lagiolra é.

(Is é díochl. 5. +c an t-aon bhall lag sa chóras tharla nach léiríonn sé glac ainmfhocal gur iarsma an s-tamhain agus an r-tamhain iad.)

Táimse ag déanamh na hArdteiste i mbliana. Rinne mé mo scrúdú béil inné. Níl ar na hiarratosóirí ach an Ghaeilge a bheith acu, is cuma conas a d'fhoghlaim siad í. Mar sin, is féidir le hiarratosóir, na díochlaonaidh a fhoghlaim, nó í a fhoghlaim in aon chaoi a thaitníonn leo. Thaitin liomsa í a fhoghlaim tríd an modh gur thaispeán mé mar 'sí mo thuairimse gurb é an modh is fearr. Má thaitníonn na díochlaonaidh leatsa, ansin foghlaim iad! Ach ná abair le daoine go bhfuil orthu na díochlaonaidh a fhoglaim mar is féidir leo í a fhoghlaim in aon chaoi a thaitníonn leo, chomh oiread is a fhoghlaimíonn siad an Ghaeilge!

Agus "ar fheabhas" a ndúirt mo scrúdóir.


Mo mhéidse.

Go mairir an dea-scéala a Bhrógáin.

"mairir"?


agus Fear na mBróg is ainm dom!

= maire tú.

Tá a fhios agam, ach cé déarfas nach bhfuil an t-ainm ceana, Brógán, níos inreicthe! Is é a thug an sloinne Ó Brógáin agus bhí beirt naomh den ainm Bróccán, fear amháin díobh a mbeidh a fhéile linn Dé hAoine seo chugainn, an 9ú lá d'Aibreán (Ó Corráin & Maguire, 1981, 37).
Más deargriachtanach leat an leagan fada, ar ndóigh, reicfimid leat mar siúd é, a Fhear na mBróg.

S.

Mar a dúirt mé riamh, tá "emoticons", pictiúir mhothúchánachais (b'fhéidir!), ag teastáil sa chlár seo!

Ní raibh mé do d'ionsaí, a Sheosaimh - ag measáil a rabhas. In aon chaoi, b'fhearr liom go dtugtar "Fear na mBróg" orm.

Is mithid go bhfoghlaimeoinn deirí speisialta na mbraithra! Cá uaidh ab fhéidir liom iad a fháil? Mar shampla, rudaí mar seo:

Dhún mé -> Dhúnas

Cad é "déarfas"?

Fear na mBróg a bheas agam ort feasta mar sin.

An foinse is fearr do fhoirmeacha táite an bhriathair is ea seanleagan Teach Yourself Irish le Myles Dillon. Mura dtagair (!) air i siopa seanleabhair, tiocfair (!) air ag an leabharlann.

The following from Anthony Green at Potsdam http://www.ling.uni-potsdam.de/~green/gaeilge/canuinti.htm#moverbal is a great resource:

In Munster synthetic forms (those with personal endings) are more often used than in the standard language, where analytic forms (those with a general ending + personal pronoun) are more common.
Mun. molair
Standard molann tú 'you (sg.) praise'

Mun. molaid
Standard molann siad 'they praise'

Mun. mholas
Standard mhol mé 'I praised'

Mun. mholais
Standard mhol tú 'you (sg.) praised'

Mun. mholabhair
Standard mhol sibh 'you (pl.) praised'

Mun. mholadar
Standard mhol siad 'they praised'

Mun. molfad
Standard molfaidh mé 'I will praise'

Mun. molfair
Standard molfaidh tú 'you (sg.) will praise'

Mun. molfaid
Standard molfaidh siad 'they will praise'

In Connacht the nonstandard synthetic forms are used, if at all, only in responses. (Irish has no words for 'yes' and 'no'; rather, the verb of the question is repeated.)

Connacht:

"An molfaidh tú é?" (analytic) 'Will you (sg.) praise him?'

"Molfad." (synthetic) 'Yes.'

(Standard "Molfaidh.")


"Ar bhris tú na gloiní?" (analytic) 'Did you break the glasses?'

"Níor bhriseas." (synthetic) 'No.'

(Standard "Níor bhris.")

"Ar fheabhas", an ea? Maith thú, a Fhir na mBróg. Bail ó Dhia ar an obair.

Go raibh míle maith agat a Sheosaimh!

I surprised myself during my Gaeilge oral test - the examiner asked me had I been to the Gaeltacht before and I blurted out: Ní rabhas

Anyway, best get learning these.

An é sin iomlán na ndeirí?

Agus, cén scéal le "déarfas"?!!

agus go raibh maith agatsa freisin, a Mháire.


You should have seen the smile of his face when I said:

i rith an tsamhraidh

Tuigim duit a Fhear na mBróg.
Rith sé liom go gcuirfeá an cheist sin as díograis, ach níor theastaigh uaim a fhreagairt roimh ré, mar is fearr a scaradh ó na deirí eile a bhí againn ar ball.

'-s' an Choibhnis:
Deireadh coibhnis (nó 'deireadh coibhneasta', nó 'foirceann coibhneasta') é an ceann seo -(f)(e)as seo. Beidh 'f' le roinnt de na briathra san Aimsir Fháistineach, 'ó' a bheas/bheidh leis na cinn eile. Tá a fhios agat féin '-f-' le céad réimniú, dúnaim agus '-eo-'/'-ó-' leis an dara réimniú, osclaím.
Cloisfidh tú é -(f)(e)as-/-eos/ós (agus feicfidh tú é) san áit a mbeadh tríú pearsa an bhriathair de ghnáth. Is é sin, ní bhaineann sé 'mé' ná le 'tú' agus chomh maith le sin. Beidh sé ag tagairt do rud/duine, do ghníomhaí/ainmní áit éigin eile san abairt:

an rud a ...
an té a ...
an duine a ...

An té a bhíos siúlach bíonn sé scéalach =

An té a bhíonn siúlach bíonn sé scéalach.

An té a scríobhfas a léifeas =

An té a scríobhfaidh a léifidh.

Tá trácht ag Dónall Ó Baoill agus Éamonn Ó Tuathail air in Úrchúrsa Gaeilge (1992, lch. 210) más féidir leat greim a fháil air.

Tá súil agam go bhfaighidh tú marc ard sa scrúdú scríofa amach anseo. Bhéarfaidh sé do rogha cúrsa duit níos faide anonn.

Ceapaim go dtuigim:

Dúnfaidh an buachaill an doras.

Is é sin an buachaill a dhúnfas an doras.

Anois feicim an fath go gcloisim i gcónaí i Ros na Rún:

"Cad a dhéanfas mé?!"

--


Deir tú gurb ionann "bhíos" agus "bhíonn". Nach ionann "bhíos" agus "bhí mé"?

Dúnfaidh an buachaill an doras.

Is é sin an buachaill a dhúnfas an doras.


Sin agat é go díreach.


Deir tú gurb ionann "bhíos" agus "bhíonn". Nach ionann "bhíos" agus "bhí mé"? :

Comhthéacs a bhéarfas an míniú do cibé ceann den phéire a d'fhéadfadh i gceist in aon chás ar leith.

Bíonn an buachaill san fhoirgneamh gach Aoine.

Sin an buachaill a bhíos san fhoirgneamh gach Aoine.

agus

Bhí mé san fhoirgneamh inné.

Bhíos san fhoirgneamh inné.


'Bhfuil sé sin ceart go leor? Agus níl débhríocht ar bith ann mar déarfaí:

Bhí mé san fhoirgneamh inné.

Sin an foirgneamh a rabhas ann inné.

Go díreach é. Tá sé agat go paiteanta agus beidh sé agat feasta.

Rud amháin a bhfuil orm é a lua.

Chuathas amach an doras.
Chonacthas an madra.
Chualathas torann.
Thángthas tríd an bhfuinneog.
Fuarthas an bosca.
Bhíothas ar buile.

An n-úsáidtear "dhún mé -> dhúnas" leo seo?

...débhríocht b'fhéidir?

---

Ceapaim gur chuala mé(!) riamh "beirtheas" in áit "rugadh", an féidir é a úsáid dá mb'fhearr le duine?

An n-úsáidtear "dhún mé -> dhúnas" leo seo?

Ní leis an mbriathar saor mar a bhí roimhe sin thuas.
As féin le briathar céad phearsa, déarfá: dhúnas ...,
dhruideas ...,
d'osclaíos an fhuinneog/doras.

Fágaimis na rudaí éiginnte de leataobh go gcloisfir am éigin eile arís iad.

Seo a bhí i gceist agam:

Chonacthas an bord.
Chonacas an bord.

an fhuaim chéanna!!

Seachain an t-ionannú agus éist amach dó, mar is dóigh liom go mbeidh -th-, coimriú agus athrú béime i gceist chomh maith.