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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (January-March) » Verb conjugation & usage « Previous Next »

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Doreen (198.81.26.45 - 198.81.26.45)
Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 01:57 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Chairde:
Help, please! I am having difficulty understanding the subtle differences in usage, especially between the present tense (ex. bogaim) and the verbal noun (ex. tá mé ag bogadh) For most verbs (bog included) the present tense doesn't seem necessary, as the verbal noun is also present tense and seems to me to express the action I'm trying to describe.
When, for instance, would I need to say 'I move' instead of 'I am moving'? Since, in Irish, 'I am moving' doesn't refer to the future as it would in English, isn't it the same as 'I move'? What subtlety am I missing here?
Is the following conjugation correct?:
Present: bogaim/ní bhogaim
tá mé ag bogadh/níl mé ag bogadh
Past: bhog mé/nî bhog mé
bhí mé ag bogadh/níl mé ag bogadh
Future: bogfaidh mé/ní bogfaidh mé
beidh mé ag bogadh/ní bheidh mé ag bogadh
Cond: bhogfainn.../ní bhogfainn...
bheinn ag bogadh.../ní bheinn ag bogadh..
Pst Hab.:bhogainn/ní bhogainn
bhínn ag bogadh/ní bhínn ag bogadh

Le Meas,
Doreen

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (193.1.100.104 - 193.1.100.104)
Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 03:28 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Bail ó Dhia ort Doreen.

1. Tá tú ag machnamh ar cheist spéisiúil:

i.e You're pondering (on) an interesting question.
i.e. Láithreach Pointe Ama
/ Present Tense point of time.


2. Machnaíonn tú ar cheist spéisiúil:

Gnáthláithreach / Present Habitual. (something you do for more than just a point of time.)


The difference is quite distinct:

1. 'You're pondering (on) an interesting question.'

vs.

2. 'You ponder (on) an interesting question.'

No. 1 can only be used when such is at that point in time a reality, be it a factual reality or imagined reality. (the latter is something we use for other subtleties which I sha'n't bother you with now)

No. 2 can mean (a) instances of no. 1 it but can also and most often does mean (b) that you do ponder as a matter of habit. We don't need the habitual of the verb 'be' or any adverbial phrase to carry the meaning for us. It is witnessed in the verb just as we say/write it.

There are other matters that you don't mention but they affect a full understanding of the matter. Na Briathra Céadfa/í, or Verbs of the senses, bolaím / I smell, feicim / I see, mothaím / I feel etc. carry both 'understandings' and yet their spoken/written form remains the same:

1. Mothaím fuar. (anois)

2. Mothaím fuar. (gach lá san áit sin)

1. Feicim mo dhuine anois.

2. Feicim mo dhuine domhnach is dálach.


To finish the matter, there is one verb in the language which has a distinct form for both of these meanings, 1 & 2. The verb to 'be':

1. Táim

vs.

2. Bím.


1. Táim ag lasadh an scáileáin.

2. Bím ag lasadh an scáileáin gach lá ag an am seo; which brings us back to where we started, because of course it =
Lasaim an scáileáin gach lá ag an am seo.

We call such matters of tense, Gné an Bhriathair - Aspect of the Verb. Is fíorspéisiúil é agus oibríonn sé sa dea-urlabhra níos minice ná a shílfí.

Coinnigh an misneach. Beidh rudaí spéisiúla eile romhat amach anseo, ach tiocfaidh tú ina dtaithí de réir a chéile, ná bíodh faitíos ort.

Go n-éirí sin leat.

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Fear na mBróg (159.134.103.193 - 159.134.103.193)
Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 03:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

You use the verbal noun to state explicilty that currently, presently, at the moment, right now this second, you are occupied in the process of performing a certain action. Also, you are in no way suggesting that you repeatly, have before, or will ever again perform the specified action, nor are you suggesting the opposite. You're not giving anything away. Let's take Seán, he's never cleaned his room before in his life, but today because of the smell, he is.

= Seán, what are you doing?
=
= I'm cleaning my room.

If he'd replied "I clean my room", his mother would have called him a liar. Why? Because the Present Tense does suggest that the action is repeated, whether it be in the past or the future.

= A Sheáin, cad atá ar siúl agat?
=
= Glanaim mo sheomra.
=
= Ní ghlanann tú do sheomra! Ná bréag dom.


Séan, what do you do after school?

I clean my room.


A Sheáin, cad a ndéanann tú taréis scoile?

Glanaim mo sheomra.

NB Right now presently this second, he is not necessarily cleaning his room. Although, obviously, it definitely is possible that he is cleaning his room right now but in no way is this suggested! It is definitely suggested however that the action is repeated.

---

A language can do without it though. German, for example:

I drive my car. = Ich fahre mein Auto.

I am driving my car. = Ich fahre mein Auto.


You'll here people say:

Ich fahre mein Auto Heute.

(Heute = now)

Now you know that they're driving their car right now, but is it repeated?..........

You don't no.

It's arkward but the Germans manage!

-------

Past:

Dhún sé an fhuinneog. ( Níor dhún sé )
Bhí sé ag dúnadh na fuinneoige. ( Ní raibh sé ) [Irregular]

Present:

Dúnann sé an fhuinneog. ( Ní dhúnann sé )
Tá sé ag dúnadh na fuinneoige. ( Níl sé ) [Irregular]

Future:

Dúnfaidh sé an fhuinneog. ( Ní dhúnfaidh sé )
Beidh sé ag dúnadh na fuinneoige. ( Ní bheidh )

Conditional:

Dhúnfadh sé an fhuinneog. ( Ní dhúnfadh sé )
Bheadh sé ag dúnadh na fuinneoige. ( Ní bheadh )

Past Habitual:

Dhúnadh sé an fhuinneog. ( Ní dhúnadh sé )
Bhíodh sé ag dúnadh na fuinneoige. ( Ní bhíodh )

-------

You may notice something... What's the story with:

"Bhíodh sé ag dúnadh na fuinneoige"

We know that the action is repeated, Past Habitual after all, and this is in the past so currently, presently, right now he is not doing it. Here's why: You use it when you specify another time frame to compare it do:

When he would stay with his friend, he would take drugs.

Nuair a d'fhanadh sé lena chara, thógadh sé drúgaí.


When his friend would be down in the kitchen getting the food, he would be taking drugs:

Nuair a bhíodh a chara thíos sa chistin ag fáil an bhia, bhíodh seisean ag tógáil drugaí.


WHAT DO YOU NOTICE?

Note how in the second example, a point of time has been pinpointed relative to another time period.

Thus, you wouldn't ever see it on it's own without a time period to reference it with:

Bhíodh sé ag dúnadh na fuinneoige.

You won't hear that just straight out on it's own, you're waiting for the person to say "... when the.. "

On it's own, you'll hear:

Dhúnadh sé an doras.


Similarly, you'd only say:

Bhí sé ag...
Beidh sé ag...
Bheadh sé ag...
Bhíodh sé ag...

when you're gonna specify a time period to reference it with:

Nuair a bheidh sé ag fáil an ghunna, beidh mise ag dúnadh na ndoirse.

Also, they're always in the same tense, ie. beidh with beidh, bhí with bhí... etc.


Mo mhéidse.

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Fear na mBróg (159.134.103.193 - 159.134.103.193)
Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 03:47 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Forgot to mention "bíonn"!

Tá sé fuar. = He is cold.

Bíonn sé fuar. = He does be cold. (repeated action)

And similarly, you'll ony see:

Bíonn sé ag...

when referencing with another time period. One common usage:

Nuair a bhíonn sé ag dúnadh an dorais, ní bhíonn Máire ag milleadh an bhosca.

...and I can hear you thinking, that's the same as "Nuair a dhúnann sé", but what's missing... the declaration that it's repeated. Another example to drill that in:

You're cycling your bike a night without a light on it. This is the first time you've ever cycled a bike in your life and you hate them, you'll never cycle one again. You're pulled over by a garda.

=Heileo
=
=Conas atá?
=
=Ní mór duit solas a bheith agat nuair a bhíonn tú ag rothaíocht san oíche.

Think of that in contrast to

=Ní mór duit solas a bheith agat nuair a rothaíonn tú san oíche.

In response to the second one, you would say:

"But I don't cycle a night"!

Why? Because it's suggested that the action is repeated.

---

Which brings me onto:

Ní mór duit solas a bheith agat agus thú ag rothaíocht san oíche.

This is sort of an abbreviation of:

Ní mór duit solas a bheith agat nuair a bhíonn tú ag rothaíocht san oíche.

NB "sé" would turn to "é", "sí" to "í", "tú" to "thú" etc.

( You can use "tú" instead of "thú" más fearr leat )


Mo mhéidse

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Doreen (198.81.26.45 - 198.81.26.45)
Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 09:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Chairde:
Go raibh míle, míle maith agaibh! Yes,Yes,Yes! It took me days to even formulate my question because I didn't know what it was I didn't know. Your explanations are very clear and immensely helpful. Thank you for your encouragement.
Le Meas,
Doreen

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Fear na mBróg (159.134.102.181 - 159.134.102.181)
Posted on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 02:29 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá céad míle fáilte romhat! I'll be glad to help with anything else in the future, just ask.

Le meas.

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conchubhar (159.134.212.170 - 159.134.212.170)
Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 05:05 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Ni dúirt éinne riamh na rudai seo thios:
1. Conas atá?
2. Ná bréag dom
3. agus thú
Na foirmeacha cearta:
1. Conas 'táthar agat nó Conas tánn tú (sa Mhumhain)
Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú (i gConnachta)
Caidé mar 'tá tú.(in Ulaidh)
2. Ná bi ag insint bréag. Uimhir Iolra
3. agus tú

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Fear na mBróg (159.134.103.38 - 159.134.103.38)
Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 05:28 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Now that's a pretentuous post if I've ever seen one.


1. "Conas atá?" I know a monkey in Dublin Zoo that realized that's an abbreviation of "Conas atá tú?". As for nobody having said it before... guess what I just said it.

2. "Ná bréag dom." It's called a verb. We language speaking humans love the things!

3. "agus thú" As I said... If you prefer you may use .

Chonaic tú é.
Chonaic sé thú.

...nó Chonaic sé tú dá mb'fhearr leat.


I'd love to hear your suggestions once you become competant in An Ghaeilge.

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 03:34 am:   Edit Post Print Post

1 - But nobody who speaks Irish fluently would say that.

2 - Bréag is NOT a verb. There is a verb breagadh, but it means to seduce, not to lie. So it would be "Ná bréag mé" do not seduce me.

The difference between

a) Chonaic tú é.
b) Chonaic sé thú.

Is that in a) tú is the SUBJECT (Tuiseal Ainmneach) and in b) it is the object (tuiseal cuspóireach)

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 10:03 am:   Edit Post Print Post

typo: that should be "there is a verb bréagadh"

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