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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (January-March) » Does 'an' aspirate 's' and 't'? « Previous Next »

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MiriamEllis (63.201.94.197 - 63.201.94.197)
Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 01:29 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Chairde,
I'm in a quandry trying to figure out if fem. nouns beginning with 's' and 't' are aspirated by the definite article?
I can't find a comprehensive list of which consonants are and aren't changed, and I think the fact that prepositions don't affect 's' and 't' is muddling me here. i.e. sa siopa, sa teach (not shiopa, theach)
Any replies?
Go raibh maith agaibh,
Miriam

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Fear na mBróg (213.94.240.148 - 213.94.240.148)
Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 09:40 am:   Edit Post Print Post

The following consonants are referred to as dentals:

D
T
S

You may realize that they kinda come in two forms, like this:

dock, jock

tease, cheese

suit, shoot


Also, the letters L and N are included.

And then there's the vowels:

a e i o u


---

Here's the phenomonen:

ainm an chait, ainm an dorais

sa chistin, sa bhosca, sa siopa, sa traein, den doctúir, don bhuachaill.

---

Here's what I think's going on:

Firstly, obviously we don't like two vowels coming together (regardless of our accent!), eg.

an apple

go hÉirinn

By softening a D, T, or S, we get a vowel ( h, w, y are sort of vowels ), therefore we prefer:

sa seomra over sa sheomra


And then there's the dentals, D T S L N, I can only conclude that after these consonants ( which involve the tongue touching your palete(roof of your mouth) ), we prefer a consonant rather than a Y glide or a W glide or a H glide. And thus we prefer:

An dúis
Ainm an dorais
den doras
sa doras


PS. I myself pronounce "dhún" as "gún", but still I would say:

sa dún

Not sure why, maybe my brain is just used to not touching a D after a dental or vowel.


Mo mhéidse

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Antóin (159.134.180.236 - 159.134.180.236)
Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 05:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

'An' + Feminine noun :-

'an' followed by a consonant = séimhiú (first letter lenited)

'an' followed by a vowel = no change

'an' followed by: sa-, se-, si-, so-, su-, sl-, sn-, sr- = 't' precedes the initial 's'

Examples:

an bhean, an fhuinneog, an ghirseach.an chuileog


an ordóg, an iomaíocht, an otharlann.

an tsaotharlann, an tsaint, an tseachtain, an tsráid

Also words beginning with d, t, and s (DoTS) are not usually lenited / aspirated after 'an'

An deoch. An tochailt. Both those words are feminine but are not lenited because the begin with 'd' and 't'

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Fear na mBróg (159.134.109.138 - 159.134.109.138)
Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Print Post

It's throughout the ENTIRE language:

An bhean mhór
An bhean deas

Tá sé an-fhuar
Tá sé an-te

Bhí sé sa chistin
Bhí sise sa seomra leapa

Cad údar an bhoird?
Cad údar an dorais?


---------


I myself still don't understand the following though:

Bhí sé ar an mbord
Bhí sé ag féachaint ar an teilifís
Rith sé ón mbanc
Rith sé ón dream


------------


To all, I strongly suggest you get the hang of séimhithe and uruithe before yous get into changing S into T, it will come to you with practice. For example, before you know it, you're saying:

D'fhág sé
D'fhan sé
D'oscail sé

And that's how it'll be with the changing S into T.
Although, for writing the language, here's the scoop:

Masculine:

An seomra
An simléar
An siúcra
An sparán

Feminine:

An tsráid
An tseachtain
An tsubh
An spéis
An smúit

Masculine:

Barr an tseomra
Barr an tsimléir
Blas an tsiúcra
Bun an sparáin

Feminine:

Barr na sráide
Deireadh na seachtaine
Blas na suibhe
Údar na spéise
Dath na smúite


NB: The S changes into T only in the singular and only after an

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MiriamEllis (67.124.96.213 - 67.124.96.213)
Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 04:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agaibh!!!
I really appreciate the help, everyone.
I think I can remember this about the dentals.
Miriam

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Fear na mBróg (159.134.101.153 - 159.134.101.153)
Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 07:38 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Don't pay too much attention to it. For instance, you still see "an-dheas" now and again. I'm not sure whether it's to do with the "Human Voice" in particular or whether it's accent specific. With time though, it became natural to me to say "an bean deas". In my own mind, an N seems a bit rough to be followed by a séimhiú on a "dental". Although maybe those with a different accent may prefer to séimhiú it.

One thing, see how I wrote "an N". I didn't even "think" about doing that, that's how it becomes with all these sound changes. And that's all they are, sound changes, they serve no major purpose in the language except to "beautify" it - it's cosmetic. If you're just learning the language, the tenses are what you should be learning, they do server a major purpose. Work on spitting out a sentence in the right tense before you get into the technicalities!

For instance, when a foreigner comes up to you and says:

"I look for bus stop now please"

you're not gonna turn around to them and say "SPEAK ENGLISH!!". And there's even parts of the world where english grammar is just down right different: In parts of England you'll hear "I were at the shop". Other parts leave out the "the". "I were at shop".

So I suggest you leave the cosmetic aspects of the language on the back burner for a while and concentrate on the aesthetic aspects, like:

Dhún sé
Dúnann sé
Dúnfaidh sé
Dhúnfadh sé
Dhúnadh sé
Go ndúna sé

Mo mhéidse

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