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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (January-March) » No vs. Un « Previous Next »

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Mike Griffin (207.86.146.142 - 207.86.146.142)
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 03:22 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I was trying to translate the phrase "Rules bind not love" into Irish and was unsure if I could say ceangail ní as well as níceangail, so I turned to the internet for help.

Is "Rialacha níceangail grá" the same as "Rialacha ceangail ní grá?" or could it be that one of them means unbind?

I am sure my translation skills are pretty weak, so any suggestions or an improved translation would be welcome.

Mike

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Antaine (138.89.98.251 - 138.89.98.251)
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 03:45 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Ceanglaíonn rialacha nach grá.
(lit. binds rules not love...remember irish word order...what is "rules bind" in english would be "bind rules" in irish)

there's my quick stab...any one should feel free to correct me

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Éanna (24.185.210.123 - 24.185.210.123)
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 06:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Ní cheanglaíonn rialacha grá.

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Antaine (138.89.98.251 - 138.89.98.251)
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 11:03 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

wait, are we saying that "rules don't bind love", or that "rules do the binding, love doesn't"?

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Poetaster (12.75.184.97 - 12.75.184.97)
Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 04:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

"Rules bind not love" means rules do not bind love. "Bind not" is the verb in that sentence. A poetic way of saying "do not bind."

"Ask not what you can do...." "Don't ask."
"Fear not I bring you tidings..." "Don't fear."


"Rules bind, not love." If the punctuation were there, it could be interpreted in the way you did.

However, it will be a sorry day for us when we are bound by rules and not love.

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Antaine (141.153.164.30 - 141.153.164.30)
Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 12:16 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I agree...and yes, it would need the comma...

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 04:32 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Éanna's version is correct.

Antaine, you've fallen into the trap of word for word translation.

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Mike Griffin (207.86.146.142 - 207.86.146.142)
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 09:34 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks for your help with the translation, but can anyone now tell me is there a way to say "un"... as in undo or untie - not as in unbreakable or unmovable.

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Mike Griffin (207.86.146.142 - 207.86.146.142)
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 10:32 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Sorry, one more question...

I was looking at Éanna's translation versus what I worked on and noted some of my mistakes(oops). I am still uncertain how to modify the second part of a two syllable verb... how do I know if I should use "-aíonn" and not "-íann"?

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 12:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

>how do I know if I should use "-aíonn" and not "-íann"?

This has to do with broad and slender consonants, see for example:
http://www.ceantar.org/Lessons/igverbs.html

As for undo or untie; I'd tend to use a word which means untie or undo, rather than try to tag something onto a verb.

untie = loosen = scaoil.

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Antaine (141.153.172.89 - 141.153.172.89)
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 04:04 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I was able to locate two prefixes

un- mí- míshásta
in-, un-, non-, -less neamh- neamhchodladh

don't think either of them would work for something like "untie" however

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Éanna (24.185.210.123 - 24.185.210.123)
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 08:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Antaine,

Pay very close attention to Aonghus' suggestions. He knows the language inside and out. You and we will benefit from his instinctive knowledge of the language.

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Antaine (141.153.172.89 - 141.153.172.89)
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 10:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

oh, i agree with him about using a separate word...neither of the prefixes will work here, i just didn't want the guy to think that there were none (prefixes, that is)

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 07:27 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I'm fairly sure that the prefixes "mí" and "neamh" can only be used with nouns, not with verbs.

I'm also fairly sure that there is no prefix which negates the meaning of a verb.

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Mike Griffin (207.86.146.142 - 207.86.146.142)
Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 11:25 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks again!

Go raibh maith agat... sorry, I don't know how to say again... well, I do in Spanish, but mixing romance languages with celtic ones will probably knock the forum off kilter :-)

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Antaine (141.153.172.89 - 141.153.172.89)
Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 09:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

again - arís

aonghus - looking over my list i think you're right...nouns only

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