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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (January-March) » Simple Help part II « Previous Next »

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Alex (205.188.209.10 - 205.188.209.10)
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 07:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

How do you say Wolf?

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Natalie (198.164.96.206 - 198.164.96.206)
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 08:08 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I'm new to this site but I have been reading a lot of these messages and even though it's probably been asked before, since I couldn't find it, I'm going to ask again. Can anyone explain to me if there is a way to know if a verb falls under the First or Second Conjugation (without being told)? If anyone can help then I would greatly appreciate it.

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alex (205.188.209.10 - 205.188.209.10)
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 08:30 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

They have a first and second conjugation now?

Natalie don't get confused by this, I am probably way behind you in this, I am just curious asI dont recall the phrase being used.

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Natalie (142.166.231.109 - 142.166.231.109)
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 08:57 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I doubt that you could be any farther behind me! No, I went into the grammar section on this site and in the present tense it mentions the first and second conjugation. I get the general idea, I just don't understand how to know which one is which.

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m (68.160.159.225 - 68.160.159.225)
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 09:28 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

First conjugation verbs are generally one syllable. Second conjugation verbs are generally two or more syllables. Naturally, exceptions do exist.
m

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James (209.48.182.219 - 209.48.182.219)
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 09:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Alex,

I don't have McGonagle in front of me, but he has a good section on this. There are some good guidelines for determining if a verb is a first or second conjugation verb. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule!

Take a look and see what he has to say.

Natalie, A Chara:

I'm making reference to a very good grammar guide called Irish Grammar: A Basic Handbook by Noel McGonagle. If you can get your hands on a copy, there are tons and tons of easy to remember rules and guidelines. Of course, there are also tons and tons of not-so-easy rules, too!

Le meas,

James

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Bradford (24.220.0.48 - 24.220.0.48)
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 10:06 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Alex,

Wolf = Mac TíreFaolchú

Bradford

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Alex (64.12.116.204 - 64.12.116.204)
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 10:28 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat a Bradford. Ach an SON as Béarla MAC?

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alex (64.12.116.204 - 64.12.116.204)
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 10:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá mé ag dul atheacht mo sheanmháthar.

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Bradford (24.220.0.48 - 24.220.0.48)
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 10:51 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Alex,

Tá, Mac Tíre, lit. trans. "son of the country".

Bradford

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Antaine (141.153.176.207 - 141.153.176.207)
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 11:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

it's my understanding that first conjugation verbs are those with a one syllable ROOT... -igh verbs can be first conj. because the -igh is eliminated leaving a one syl. root, multi-syl roots are type 2...at least that's how it was explained to me

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 04:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá mé ag dul go teach mo sheanmháthar - I am going to my grandmother's house (I think that's what you meant)

Little Red Riding Hood - Cochaillín Dearg

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Alex (152.163.252.163 - 152.163.252.163)
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 05:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

OK thank you yes that is what I was meaning to say :-D

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Natalie (198.164.96.146 - 198.164.96.146)
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 05:06 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat. I'll probably have another question before too long!

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Alex (205.188.209.10 - 205.188.209.10)
Posted on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 03:40 am:   Edit Post Print Post

á


OK

is there any way to know when to use

A+xHxxx as in tá mé ag dul abhaile


go dtí

or plain go

when referring to going(ag dul, dul)

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Larry (217.42.55.110 - 217.42.55.110)
Posted on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 04:48 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Alex, a chara,

As a general rule, you use go without the definate article. Mar shampla:

Tá mé ag dul go Doire - I'm going to Derry

and:

Tá mé ag dul go dtí an siopa - I'm going to the shop.

So if the noun is preceded by the definate article - an - you use go dtí, if it isn't you use simply go

An dtuigeann tú?

Le meas,

Larry.

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Alex (205.188.209.10 - 205.188.209.10)
Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 11:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

OK I think I asked this one before but


Nach bhfuil tú ag dul leis?

it just dont sound right


And then

An bhfuil sí ag glaneacht an chistin anois?

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Maidhc Ó G. (4.76.86.249 - 4.76.86.249)
Posted on Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 11:09 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Nach bhfuil tú ag dul leis?
You're not going with him? / Aren't you going with him?
OR Depending on the context.
You're not going too? / Aren't you going too?

An bhfuil sí ag glanacht an chistín anois?
Is she cleaning the kitchen now?

-Maidhc.

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Monday, March 01, 2004 - 04:34 am:   Edit Post Print Post

An bhfuil sí ag glanadh na cistine anois!

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Larry (217.42.55.140 - 217.42.55.140)
Posted on Monday, March 01, 2004 - 09:16 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Aonghuis, a chara,

Cén fáth nach bhfuil sé "... ag glanadh an chistin..."?

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Larry (217.42.55.140 - 217.42.55.140)
Posted on Monday, March 01, 2004 - 09:52 am:   Edit Post Print Post

... or is this a case of the noun being the direct object of the verbal noun which dictates that you should use the genetive?

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Maidhc Ó G. (67.27.162.159 - 67.27.162.159)
Posted on Monday, March 01, 2004 - 12:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I swear I posted that same point not long ago. Ó, Bhoil. I should've said,"An bhfuil sí an chistín a glanadh anois?" That way using the preposition with the verbal noun after the object. My word order was incorrect.
But, again, yes that seems to be what Aonghus did there.
-Maidhc.

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 05:43 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Oh well. Native speaker intuition, I'm afraid.
I can only say that what Maidhc wrote (both versions) feels wrong.

However, this link from UCC suggests Larry's explanation is why I feel this way!
"48. Ainm briathartha + tuiseal ginideach, ag léamh an leabhair, ag déanamh na hoibre "
http://www.ucc.ie/acad/mi/cursai/gramadachnua/grnua4.html

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Al Evans (208.188.101.145 - 208.188.101.145)
Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 11:03 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I think Maidhc's "An bhfuil sí an chistín a glanadh anois?" (Is she to clean the kitchen now?) should be "An bhfuil an chistín le glanadh aici anois?"

--Al Evans

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 12:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

An bhfuil sí ag glanadh na cistine anois - Is she cleaning the kitchen now?

An bhfuil an chistín le glanadh aici anois? - Does she have to clean the kitchen now? (Slightly different phrase; if I've takes Al's meaning correctly, we mean the same thing!)

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Alex (152.163.252.163 - 152.163.252.163)
Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 07:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

LOST!!!

Well I got a question


Is there a difference when one would use


Mar vs. Toisc?


also---

Would An Bfhuil be able to be written AN BFUIL with a dot over the B?

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Maidhc Ó G. (67.27.162.104 - 67.27.162.104)
Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 08:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I'm not sure about the first question, but in the second, the dot would go over the F in older spelling.
-Maidhc.

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Bradford (24.220.0.48 - 24.220.0.48)
Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 10:06 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Alex,

I think you meant to say "an bhfuil" instead of "an bfhuil"? In that case it would indeed be "an bfuil" with a dot over the "b" in the traditional notation.

- Bradford

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:29 am:   Edit Post Print Post

The short answer to your "mar" versus "toisc" is yes! But I can't think of any clear examples

Toisc is usually used where "because of something" is meant

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Larry (217.42.54.9 - 217.42.54.9)
Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 06:28 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Toisc na cainte go léir - Because of all the talk.

Níl airgead agam mar tá mé dífhostaithe - I have no money because I'm unemployed.

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 07:03 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Maith agat Larry!
They are good examples; you could not replace toisc by mar or vice versa in either of them without rewriting them differently.

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Larry (217.42.54.9 - 217.42.54.9)
Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 07:51 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat, a Aonghuis.

I generally translate "mar" as "as". If I can say something in English using "as" instead of "because" I go for "mar" - I have no money as I'm unemployed. It's not set in concrete, but it usually serves me well.

Le meas,

Larry.

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Maidhc Ó G. (67.27.48.9 - 67.27.48.9)
Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 08:18 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Would you believe that "an bhfuil" question actually woke me out of my sleep last night when I realized my error over the mis-spelling. lol
-Maidhc.

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Alex (64.12.116.204 - 64.12.116.204)
Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:01 am:   Edit Post Print Post

LOL yes I DID mean to put bhfuil---you think my typing in Irish is bad, you should hear me try to speak it! ;-)

I think I can understand the toisc and mar thing

Mar is like something as a RESULT of another condition----I am here BECAUSE she wouldnt go there(mar)

toisc is a little harder to explain, but more its like a reason-------Because she wasnt around at the time(toisc)

correct me if I am wrong, please!

Also With toisc go bhfuil

How would i say


Toisc go bhuil níl a hathair ansin léi anois!

I know that most likely isn't correct, but I think you guys get my point enough to correct??


thanks!

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:12 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Toisc nach bhfuil a hathair ansin léi anois...

Because her father is not there with her now

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Larry (217.42.54.9 - 217.42.54.9)
Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 12:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Alex, a chara,

Scriobh tú:

Mar is like something as a RESULT of another condition----I am here BECAUSE she wouldnt go there(mar)

toisc is a little harder to explain, but more its like a reason-------Because she wasnt around at the time(toisc)

Well done! If you think of it along those lines you won't go far wrong. Aonghus has pointed out where you made the mistake, but I've known many students who don't grasp the difference between toisc and mar as quickly as you seem to have done. Keep at it and you'll make rapid progress.

Le meas,

Larry.

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Alex (64.12.116.204 - 64.12.116.204)
Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:53 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Well, lol Me rapid and Irish are three words never to be heard in the same sentence ;-)


And also I knew what I said was wrong, I had 2 verbs! lol

So can you only have TOISC GO BHFUIL and TOISC NACH BHFUIL?

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alex (64.12.116.204 - 64.12.116.204)
Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 06:23 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

An bhfuil sé ró-deacair leat?

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padaiml (217.43.217.139 - 217.43.217.139)
Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 08:08 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

cad é fá "de dheasca" agus "de thairbhe" le húsaid

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Alex (64.12.116.204 - 64.12.116.204)
Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 09:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I got another question.
I find in my practicing Irish some R's come of differently, some actually have a SLIGHT roll, is this normal?
Are there any Rolling Rs in Irish?

if so, or if there just is some direction on how an R is said, or when it changes( by what/what cases?)

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 05:00 am:   Edit Post Print Post

An bhfuil sé ró-deacair duit? Is it too hard for you?

de dheasca - because of (something negative)
de thairbhe - because of (something positive)

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Alex (205.188.209.9 - 205.188.209.9)
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 12:03 am:   Edit Post Print Post

OK I am trying to grasp MAR and TOISC better


Because she was....because you did that/...I am going to...he did...we are going to...it will
in a sentence using these you would have TOISC and then


I am here....we DID that.../they were with you
mar

I think I get it a little more----like one the first part of the sentence has the action, and the other the second does?

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Alex (205.188.209.9 - 205.188.209.9)
Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 09:47 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Does anyone know anything about PIMSLEUR IRISH I?

I listened to a few seconds, its sounds are almost completely different from what I hear normally...well not completely, I can make it out, but the voices sound wierd....?

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