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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (October-December) » Comparing two things... « Previous Next »

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Joe (62.252.205.7 - 62.252.205.7)
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 01:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A chairde,

Hi, it's me again :)

In order to compare two things, I understand that we should use the structure "chomh .... le..." (please correct me if I'm wrong on this part!). So to say something along the lines of "as innocent as he is, he is not as innocent as a child" would it be in order to say "chomh neamhchiontach le tá sé, níl sé chomh neamhchiontach le páiste"? And to say "...as THE child" would I chainge it to "... leis an páiste"?

My primary objective in asking this question is to ascertain how we say "... as he is.." in the first part of the sentence. "le tá sé" doesn't seem to have the right feel to it. I'd appreciate your feedback.

Joe.

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Al Evans (208.188.101.145 - 208.188.101.145)
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 03:36 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I'd say,

Chomh soineanta agus atá sé, níl sé chomh soineanta le páiste.

or,
...leis an páiste sin.

I think "neamhchiontach" is "innocent" more in the sense of "not guilty".

But I don't have any real reason to think I'm right about either of these things:-)

--Al Evans

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Maidhc Ó G. (67.235.185.70 - 67.235.185.70)
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 03:52 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

My first reaction was, "Chomh neamhchiontach leis é atá sé, níl chomh neamhchiontach le páiste é." - but this is probably wrong. It may go something more like, "Chomh fhada leis é atá sé neamh cion, níl neamhchiontach é."
And to say, "as THE child"....leis an bpáiste in standard and most dialects -or- leis an pháiste in Ulster.
That falls under that most prepositions followed by the definite article then eclipse (urú). But in Ulster it gives lenition (seimhiú) to a singular noun.
I'm hoping to see how mine is corrected now.
-Maidhc.

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Joe (62.252.210.75 - 62.252.210.75)
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 03:53 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Al, a chara,

Thank you for your reply, but I'm a little confused. I don't see where "... agus..." fits into it??

I take your point about the use of the adjective. I used that as an example of the construction :)

And isn't "an páiste sin" THAT child, instead of THE child??

Joe.

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Larry (217.43.111.3 - 217.43.111.3)
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 04:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Joe, a chara,

I'd say that you're almost there! Use atá instead of tá in the first part of your sentence (in my opinion).

But also take note of what Maidhc has pointed out. He's correct in showing that "an", when preceded by "le" causes lenition in the dialect of Irish you're studying. You've mentioned before that you're following "Now You're Talking" which, as you know, concentrates on the Ulster dialect and, as Maidhc pointed out, it causes lenition. "... leis an pháisti".

Yes, "an páisti sin" = THAT child, "an páisti" = THE child....

So to take you back to your original question, I'd phrase it thus: "Chomh neamhchiontach leis atá sé, níl sé chomh neamhchiontach le páisti ( leis an pháisti).

Le meas,

Larry

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Larry (217.43.111.3 - 217.43.111.3)
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 04:49 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Joe, a chara,

In addition to that, Al's version is an alternative using the construction chomh + adjective + agus + verb which, on reflection, is probably more correct as you're trying to incorporate the verb "tá", which then becomes "atá"!

Le meas,

Larry.

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Al Evans (208.188.101.145 - 208.188.101.145)
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 05:42 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Joe,

To be honest, I've sort of stopped studying grammar for the moment to concentrate on reading. When I'm learning a new language, that seems to do me more good than anything for getting useful patterns of words into my mind.

The downside is that it destroys any idea of the "standard" language:-) That's OK; I'd rather think of a language in the same way its best authors do than the way some committee decided it should be.

Right now, I'm reading _Rotha Mór an tSaoil_, and I'm probably severely infected by Donegal Irish from the end of the last century.

So the only answer I have at the moment is, "I think that's how Micí Mac Gabhann would have said it."

--Al Evans

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Maidhc Ó G. (67.235.185.168 - 67.235.185.168)
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 01:23 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

It took me a second or three, but now, I almost agree with Al's. Note: Agus is also sometimes used as 'but' in a sentence. Mar sampla - I was going in, but he went out. Bhí mé ag goill istigh agus chuaigh sé amuigh. - or - I went there and who did I see but John. Chuaigh mé ansiúd agus cé abhí sé go d'fheic mé agus Seán. (I'm sure there's a better idiomatic form there.)
I also agree with Al's usage of 'soineanta' for the same reason that he pointed out to describe 'páiste'. But, perhaps the two adjectives would give the complete picture.
Chomh neamhchiontach agus atá sé, níl chomh soineanta páiste é. - As not guilty as he is, he's not as innocent as a baby. - or maybe - Chomh fhada leis neamh cion é agus atá sé, níl chomh soineanta páiste é. As much as he is without guilt/sin(?), he's not as innocent as a baby. (I'm not sure if I'm over-thinking this.)
-Maidhc.

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Maidhc Ó G. (67.235.185.91 - 67.235.185.91)
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 03:51 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Whoops. In the above given example, that should be," ... go nd'feic mé..."
-Maidhc.

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