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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (October-December) » Basic things « Previous Next »

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Alsander (209.109.244.72 - 209.109.244.72)
Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 02:10 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia dhuit a mo chairde! Fáilte!(I think, and if I missed a fada let me know, GOA)

I just have a quick Q on urú. I think this would be urú. Anyhow, you say "Mo mBord"(I think), or Cén t-ainm atá ort?....

So does it go like this


consanant= it will be xY
Vowel= x-y
X and Y just being the different letters in various word.(i.e. m(or x)B(or Y)ord(or )


thats really all for now and there will be more

Go raibh maith agat

Alsander


P.S. If I ever mispell an irish word,say it wrong,of miss a fada please do not quaill to tell me

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Larry (217.43.57.193 - 217.43.57.193)
Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 07:07 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Alsander, a chara,

Briefly...

Your opening line is wrong for 2 reasons. First, you can't use "...a mo..". Use "a" or "mo", but not both. "a" (vocative particle) is better. Second, "... dhuit..." is used when addressing one person (dhaoibh to more than one person)and "... c(h)airde" is the plural of cara (friend). It would be better written as "Dia d(h)uit a chara" or "Dia d(h)aoibh a chairde". Be consistent!

The personal preposition "mo" (my) causes séimhiú, not úrú. And "cén t-ainm..." is not an example of úrú, it's merely prefixing "t" to a noun beginning with a vowel.

Le meas,

Larry.

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Larry (217.43.57.193 - 217.43.57.193)
Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 08:15 am:   Edit Post Print Post

To expand a little on my previous reply as time permits...

The personal prepositions "mo" (my), "do" (your), and "a" (his) cause lenition, séimhiú, - mo bhord (my table). The personal prepositions "ár" (our), "bhur" (your) and "a" (their) cause úrú - ár mbord (our table).

The article "an" prefixes "t" to masculine nouns in certain circumstances. The word "cén" is actually 2 words - cé+an. Ainm is a masculine noun, so it becomes "cén t-ainm"

Le meas,

Larry.

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James (199.112.55.122 - 199.112.55.122)
Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 11:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Mo Chara, Larry. One small point (funny, after 6 months deployed in the desert my fingers kept trying to type "pint"...is that subliminal, freudian or just wishful thinking??)

At any rate, I digress. The point I wanted to make was that the items in question are "personal pronouns" not prepositons. Not trying to be picky but the grammatical terms are part of the "hidden" challenges of understanding this stuff. Don't need any additional confusion!

Alsander, Mo Chara:

Go back to your earlier postings on a different thread. (Sorry, I can't recall which thread it was). I laid all of this out in a rather concise format for you: prefixing,séimhiú and úrú all were explained with examples.

Keep at it. Use those tools and put it out there for a test drive. Just like you did with your opening. That's the only way to get comfortable. You made a good effort, with a few mistakes. Completely to be expected...we all started off doing the same thing...it's a great way to learn!

Adh mor ort,

James

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Larry (217.42.55.118 - 217.42.55.118)
Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 12:15 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

James, a chara,

Thank you for pointing that out. I accept that my English grammar isn't what it should be, particularly in naming the various terms :)

Le meas,

Larry.

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A (64.12.96.106 - 64.12.96.106)
Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 09:36 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

LOL I think all English speakers face that, I mean all those who speak a second language will usually know the seconds grammer better, if not having grown up on it.


And Sorry about the New thread, was just thinking a new one would be OK

and Finally, please dont React that way when I get something wrong...I tried and knew somethin was BOUND to be wrong

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James (199.112.55.122 - 199.112.55.122)
Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 12:24 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Alsander,

Hey, you're doing great! Don't take my comments the wrong way. They were in no way meant as a chastisement. Not at all. Every single one of us (except for the native speakers) started out right where you are. I've made the same mistakes and continue to make mistakes....it's all part of the learning process. You keep at it!

A wise man once said, "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement."

You've got the intiative, the drive and the intelligence to get the hang of this language. I'm very impressed by what you've done thusfar. My only point was that you've seen this information before on another thread. You may want to start printing this stuff out and compiling a little "book of knowledge" until you can get some reference materials.

Keep at it, Alsander. You're doing a great job!

Larry,

You and I share a common deficit, then. I have a very difficult time with the various grammar terms. It's like I've had to learn one language (grammar-ese)just so I can learn Irish.

Le meas,

James

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A (205.188.209.10 - 205.188.209.10)
Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 04:51 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

me? Intelligence? WOW! and I am going to start on the notes.


Thanks for the help though

and I dont know where you got intelligence and that Ive been doing good???

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Alsander (152.163.252.163 - 152.163.252.163)
Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 06:03 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Mo Chairde,

As I get more and more in depth in Irish and Spanish something plagues me. I mean, when in English I spoke before I learned the structure and all, and it was different so I can go by ear seing and I was exposed to it so much. But in spanish and irish, I can't. And I was wondering if someone could give me some basic grammer rules and sentence structure and such for a begginner. Also I would like to have whomever decides to ta ckle this, to PLEASE tell me about Irish punctuations as well, do the use commas? Question/exclamation marks? And so forth with things like that.
Secondly I was wonder if someone could tell me how to show posession, tú cat, thats sort of in Spanish and English form and I am almost SURE that it would not be said that way in Irish as well. Thanks for your time.

Go raibh maith agat,
Alsander

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A (64.12.96.106 - 64.12.96.106)
Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 10:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

OK OK OK ONE MORE THING! If someone was going to go through all this can they maybe give me a little bit on the whole thing with the pronouncing of the EA AE A E O OI IO and all those vowel combinations/single vowels.

I am putting charts and all this into my book :-) and am soon going to transfer the grammer section on this site too!

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A (205.188.209.10 - 205.188.209.10)
Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 05:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Is anyone out there?

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (193.1.100.104 - 193.1.100.104)
Posted on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 03:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Alsander a chara,

There's no shortage of information here already on pronounciation. There are 150 pages on the search facility to the left of screen on 'vowel pronounciation'.

Go n-éirí sin leat,
Good luck with it,

Seosamh

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Maidhc Ó G. (67.235.185.91 - 67.235.185.91)
Posted on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 11:59 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Alsander, a chara,
Have you selected a course to study from yet? Many of them come with pages/charts for pronunciation. This will greatly speed getting what your looking for because often vowel sounds change when affected by other letters, e.g. "io" - pro. u: (like 'oo' in food) at the beginning of words - ionat. Or i or i: (like p'i't or P'e'te, depending on the speaker.) - pionta. (like the former usually.) And has other changes also. With what you've asked for, it's too long to list all of everything.
-Maidhc.

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A (205.188.209.10 - 205.188.209.10)
Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 01:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post

ok ok ok and no I havent I am going to be buying some over the holidays though

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Al (205.188.209.10 - 205.188.209.10)
Posted on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 12:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Can you at least tell me if they use "!"

And also can I say


"An bhfuil mé bean?"

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Larry (217.42.55.112 - 217.42.55.112)
Posted on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 12:45 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Punctuation marks, including "!", are used in Irish in a similar way to their use in English.

"An bhfuil mé...?" is the construction you use when you're asking about the state/condition that you're in. To say what you ARE (man/woman etc) or your occupation, use "Is" for a positive statement, "An" for a positive question and "nach" for a negative question - followed by the noun. So :-

Is bean mé - I am a woman
An tiománaí é? - Is he a driver?
etc etc.

Le meas,

Larry.

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A (205.188.209.10 - 205.188.209.10)
Posted on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 09:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

THANK YOU!!

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AA (64.12.96.106 - 64.12.96.106)
Posted on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 05:03 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Another thing

Is it "Is bean mé" when like its a NOUN and then An bhfuil, Níl when its an adjective?

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Oliver Grennan (217.155.45.122 - 217.155.45.122)
Posted on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 09:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

You've got the right idea there, a AA.

"Is x mé" is used for classification.

"Tá mé x" is used for description.

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AA (205.188.209.10 - 205.188.209.10)
Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 02:32 am:   Edit Post Print Post

YAY! Something I got right (for once)

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AA (205.188.209.10 - 205.188.209.10)
Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 02:33 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Why is it


An Tiománaí é??


THe é confuses me

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Jonas (213.243.174.35 - 213.243.174.35)
Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 03:41 am:   Edit Post Print Post

"He is a driver", The "é" means "he.

Is X mé = I am a X
Is X thú = you are a X
Is X é = he is a X
Is X í = she is a X
Is X sinn = we are Xs
Is X sibh = you are Xs
Is X iad = they are Xs

Although all that sounds very unnatural to me, I'd go for
X is ea mi = I am a X
X is ea tu = you are a X
X is ea é = he is a X
X is ea í = she is a X
X is ea sinn = we are Xs
X is ea sibh = you are Xs
X is ea iad = they are Xs

Both forms are equally right.

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Jolie (67.69.112.211 - 67.69.112.211)
Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 10:39 am:   Edit Post Print Post

hello,

could someone tell me the correct spelling of a word.
it is like "cheers" and sounds like salonche'

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Bradford (216.16.15.66 - 216.16.15.66)
Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 10:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Jolie,

I think the word you're looking for is sláinte.

- Bradford

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 10:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Sláinte

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AA (205.188.209.10 - 205.188.209.10)
Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 11:04 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

lol ok ok what is EA mean then?

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AA (205.188.209.10 - 205.188.209.10)
Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 11:05 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

and one more thing is it like AY-UH kind of or YUH???

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AA (205.188.209.10 - 205.188.209.10)
Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 11:28 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

An tiománaí (ea) í?
Is tiománaí (ea) í
Nach tiománaí (ea) í!

Conas tá sí?
Tá sí go maith.
Níl sí go maith!

then nothing else?

and can you say

An bean t(h)ú?
or
an bhfuil t(h)ú go maith/fuar?

is there a rule for the tú thú thing?

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 04:13 am:   Edit Post Print Post

"ea" is a word which emphasises the thing being said. It would be used in statements, not in questions

An bean í? Bean is ea í (this is a stronger alternative to "Is bean í")

The usual rules for lenition apply to tú, thú (but I don't think about those rules, so I don't know what they are. I think somebody gave them to you earlier)

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Tomás (198.22.236.230 - 198.22.236.230)
Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 09:36 am:   Edit Post Print Post

"ea" is pronounced more like AAH. A real flat 'a' sound, like the 'ea' in "bean" (the Irish word for woman, not the English word for a legume). -- Tomás

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Jonas (213.243.178.152 - 213.243.178.152)
Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 12:23 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Aonghus, nothing you say is wrong but for someone with Corca Dhuibhne Irish there is an alternative version. Since we are dealing with dialects (and I sincerely think all dialects are equal) I would never say that my view is more right on this topic.

For any Corca Dhuibhne speaker, "bean is ea í" is not emphatical, it is just the usual way to speak. "Is bean í" is perfect Irish, but it is not what would be heard in Corca Dhuibhne. I don't doubt that there once was a distinction and that "bean is ea í" was an emphasized form, but today that distinction has been lost in most places. The majority of the dialects tend to favour "is bean í" while Corca Dhuibhne (and much of Munster) goes for "bean is ea í". By the way, do you know any place where both version are in common use?

You are perfectly right in the lenition concerning tú and thú. Once more, Corca Dhuibhne Irish has another construction. The disinction between tú and thú has been replace by a distinction between tú and tu. This distinction if of course identical to sé - é ; sí - í ; siad - iad but also to mé - mi.

Anyway, that is the way of Corca Dhuibhne ;-)

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Larry (217.42.55.109 - 217.42.55.109)
Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 04:05 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

If I want to state something as a simple fact, I use the construction "Is tiománaí é" - he's a driver. If, however, I want to emphasise the fact that he's a driver, and not a butcher or a doctor, I use the construction "Tiománaí is ea é". By bringing the noun to the front of the sentence in this fashion I'm placing emphasis on it. That's what I see as the difference in the two constructions.

Le meas,

Larry.

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AA (152.163.252.163 - 152.163.252.163)
Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 04:26 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

okok Thanks everyone that helped a little so ea is used only in this way then?


Tiománaí is ea é
Nach tiománaí ea é


and what about my other sentences?

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AA (64.12.96.106 - 64.12.96.106)
Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 11:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

another


When a T is in between teo sounds/vowels

Fáilte agus sláinte

is it pronounced like a tch in witch??

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 04:09 am:   Edit Post Print Post

You can't say "Nach tiománaí ea é"

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 04:09 am:   Edit Post Print Post

You might say
Tiománaí é, nach ea? - "He's a driver, isn't he?"

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Jonas (213.243.190.52 - 213.243.190.52)
Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 05:05 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Precisely, instead of the wrong "Nach tiománaí é" you say "Nach tiománaí é." In the past, though, you can, and would, use "ea" with "nach".

"Nach tiománaí ab ea é"

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AA (205.188.209.10 - 205.188.209.10)
Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 04:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

so basically ea is JUST with tiománaí is ea é....not normally with anything thing else

and other thatn that is goes like

Person 1: An tiománaí é?
Person 2: Ní tiománaí é, nach X é?
Person 3: Tiománaí is ea é!
Person 2: Go raibh maith agat! Is tiománaí é.

hehe I need to work it out like this :-D

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