mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (October-December) » Accurate Translation? « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Brigid_CloverMoon (12.42.230.66 - 12.42.230.66)
Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 11:59 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I had posted a quote in English that I would like to get tattooed in Irish Gaelic soon on another board for Irish Gaelic speakers. Below is the english quote I provided and the translation I was given. Can anyone verify if this is correct?
I know there was some question over the use of smaragaidghlas as an adjective for emerald. Please help.

Emerald is the flame that burns within
Is smaragaidghlas an lasair a dhónn istigh.

"Win or perish" the motto cries
'Sé "bua nó bás" scairt an seanfhocail,

A hot blooded Irish soul lies within
Síleann fuil te sa chroí laistigh

seeking ancient Gaelic ties.
ag lorg naisc Gaelacha ársacha.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

James (199.112.55.122 - 199.112.55.122)
Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 12:32 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Brigid, A Chara:

I'm far from fluent but I am almost certain there is a better word for "motto" than seanfhocail.

Also, there is no reference to an "Irish soul" in the third stanza.

Now, having said that. It may be that the translation, while not literal, is as close as you can get and still sound normal to the Irish ear.

Give this a few days on this site and see what turns up.

Le meas,

James

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Brigid_CloverMoon (12.42.230.66 - 12.42.230.66)
Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 01:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

James thanks for your input. I have been told that not everything in English translates directly into Irish, that sometimes substitutes must be used. Is there anything at all in reference to an Irish soul/spriit though?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maidhc Ó G. (67.235.185.146 - 67.235.185.146)
Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 01:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I think that might be "glas smaragaide" - Translation; green of emerald = emerald green.
Also, I find "mana" for 'attitude, portent, motto'.
-Maidhc.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

James (199.112.55.122 - 199.112.55.122)
Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 02:49 am:   Edit Post Print Post

There is no reference to an Irish anything in that stanza. There is reference to a "heart" which could be contextually correct but there is no reference to that particular "heart" being Irish, Gaelic, of Eire.....nothing.

My guess is that someone marginally proficient in Irish, but far from fluent, put this together. Unfortunately, I fall into that same category. Marginally proficient, but far from fluent.

Then again, they could be one of those that speaks Irish from the cradle and the whole this is perfectly correct. (I rather doubt it, though.)

Hold on a few days and some of the native speakers will catch onto this thread and set it straight. After all, you're going to commit this to skin!!! You want to be sure it's right!

Le meas,

James

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maidhc Ó G. (67.235.185.217 - 67.235.185.217)
Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 10:21 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Truly. The translation I get for that line is,"Hot blood flows within the heart." But,"te" refers to 'hot' as temperature, not passion.
That's definitely an idiom of some sort. I tried to say it myself and got," 'Is anam teasaí d'Éirinn é atá laistigh." - And that's probably not really it, by word or grammar. Trans.,( I tried for, at least,) It's a hot-blooded soul of Ireland that's within. - Or something like that.
Teasaí might also be 'ceanndána', neither is truly exact. Teasaí can be hot, fiery, or stubborn, hot tempered.
Ceanntána can be head strong, wilful, stubborn, blood minded.
I'd really like to see the perspective of a gaeilgeoir on this one.
-Maidhc.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Brigid_CloverMoon (12.42.230.66 - 12.42.230.66)
Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 10:32 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks guys. Anyone fluent or a native speaker want to take a stab?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Seosamh Mac Muirí (193.1.100.104 - 193.1.100.104)
Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 02:22 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Brigid a chara,

The loyal writers of Daltaí here above are quite correct as to the weaknesses of the translation in your first post. I have taken a liberty below in the last line with 'ties' being covered twice, by '-snáithe' and 'gaoil', but I feel that it earns it's keep. Gaol/gaoil has a secondary meaning, 'love', which carries some of your message. The final word 'an Ghaeil', while here a singular, is fact generic.

You ought to play around with it for a while, looking at this word and that, before going for the tattoo, as it's quite a long one. By the time that you go to get it done you may have zeroed in onto something shorter and more to your liking. Cá bhfios? Who knows?


Emerald is the flame that burns within
Is iathghlas an lasair bheo istigh


"Win or perish" the motto cries
'Bua nó bás' a ghaireann an mana


A hot blooded Irish soul lies within
Istigh faoi iamh, tá croí te Gaeil


seeking ancient Gaelic ties.
ag dréim le seansnáithe gaoil an Ghaeil.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maidhc Ó G. (67.235.185.159 - 67.235.185.159)
Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 01:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I've tried this one again, this time taking a different approach. This is a poem after all and that leaves a little leeway. So utilizing a little rhythm and rhyme.

Dóigh lasair smaraide laistigh
Scáirt an mhana,"Bua nó Bás!"
Anam teasaí d'Éirinn istigh
Ar lorg seansnáithe gaelach.

Well, that's about the best I've got for this one.
-Maidhc.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Brigid_CloverMoon (209.173.118.124 - 209.173.118.124)
Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 06:06 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat for the help. I will think about it before I get it tattooed. It is much longer in Gaelic than English. How much different is the last translation from the one above it?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Larry (217.42.53.68 - 217.42.53.68)
Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 09:58 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Bhrigid, a chara,

Both Seosamh and Maidhc are, in my opinion, correct in their choice of the word for motto - "mana". It's a masculine noun, so "the motto" = "an mana". Seosamh's choice of "ag dréim le ..." to convey a sense of seeking is more in line with the original text... Maidhc's choice of "ag lorg" (he got the 'ag' correct the first time) conveys, to me, more a sense of looking as you'd look out of a window, for example. The Irish for "battle cry" is "gáir chatha" and Seosamh's use of the phrase "Bua nó bás a ghaireann an mana" would, again in my opinion, be more appropriate than "scáirt" which can be translated as "summons" or "call".

I hope this doesn't come across as over-critical of Maidhc's attempts. He made a very worthy attempt at correcting the original version which contains errors or mistranslations as already pointed out by James.

Le meas,

Larry.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maidhc Ó G. (67.235.185.243 - 67.235.185.243)
Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 10:47 am:   Edit Post Print Post

No offence taken at all, a chara. Though, I'll stick to 'Ar lorg' in this one. My dictionary gives "ar lorg fianaise - looking for evidence" in its usage as a verb, and "ar do lorg - looking for you" when as a noun.
I do agree, however that James' choice of "ag dréim le seansnáithe"- literally, striving for ancient ties - probably works better in this case. I agree also with 'gáir' over scáirt now. I'd rather shout, laugh, or cheer my motto, than call or cry it - any day.
So, with only slight rearrangement, I take my last post and rewrite it as:

Dóigh lasair smaraide laistigh
Gáir an mana,"Bua nó bás!"
Anam teasaí d'Éirinn istigh
Ag dréim le seansnáithe gaelach.

And, now, looking at it - again. For better rhythm and rhyme, I'd put the verses in reverse order. Instead of 1234 - 4321.
Le ard mheas,
-Maidhc.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

James (199.112.55.126 - 199.112.55.126)
Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 11:44 am:   Edit Post Print Post

That phrase was from Seosamh, not me. I wish I could take credit for it but alas, integrity prevent it!

I've actually been away from the books and the computer for a few days and was looking forward to tackling this. You've both done a great job. Very interesting to see how this thing has "morphed" from the original translation (or lack thereof) that Brigid posted.

Ain't this a great place!?!?!

Ard mheas,

James

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maidhc Ó G. (67.235.185.41 - 67.235.185.41)
Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 01:41 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Oops. Tá tú ceart, a James. Bhí sé ó Seosamh.
Agus, Bíonn! Bíonn áit seo go maith mór agam!
Slán go foill,
-Maidhc.

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.


©Daltaí na Gaeilge