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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (July-September) » Comparative vs. Superlative « Previous Next »

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Dawn (66.19.56.78 - 66.19.56.78)
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 12:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A chairde,

I'm having trouble sorting through this. Can someone translate the following for me?

short shorter shortest

This is the short one.

This is the shorter one.
This one is shorter than that one.

This is the shortest one.

Any other helpful comments that come to mind would be appreciated as well.

Thanks!

Dawn

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Al Evans (208.188.101.145 - 208.188.101.145)
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 01:30 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dawn,

short -- gairid, gearr
shorter -- níos gairide, níos giorra
shortest -- is gairide, is giorra

This is the short one -- Seo an ceann gairid.

This is the shorter one -- Seo an ceann níos gairide.

This one is shorter than that one -- Tá an ceann seo níos gairide ná an ceann sin.

This is the shortest one -- Seo an ceann is gairide.

I think I got that all right -- if not, someone will surely let me know:-)

--Al Evans

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Al Evans (208.188.101.145 - 208.188.101.145)
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 01:30 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dawn,

short -- gairid, gearr
shorter -- níos gairide, níos giorra
shortest -- is gairide, is giorra

This is the short one -- Seo an ceann gairid.

This is the shorter one -- Seo an ceann níos gairide.

This one is shorter than that one -- Tá an ceann seo níos gairide ná an ceann sin.

This is the shortest one -- Seo an ceann is gairide.

I think I got that all right -- if not, someone will surely let me know:-)

--Al Evans

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Dawn (66.19.56.78 - 66.19.56.78)
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 03:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Looks right to me too. Thanks.

Are comp. and sup. forms the same then, with the difference being in the níos and is?

What is the difference between gairid and gearr?

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Joe (62.252.208.108 - 62.252.208.108)
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 03:52 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Al, a chara,

Shouldn't "This is the short one" be "Tá an ceann gearr seo"? Doesn't the verb "tá" figure at all?

Joe.

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Dawn (66.19.56.78 - 66.19.56.78)
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 04:28 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I have been confused by that also, but the verb doesn't appear to be always necessary in Irish?

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Larry (217.42.55.100 - 217.42.55.100)
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 05:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A chairde,

Joe has a point: When using the verb 'Tá', the word 'níos' precedes the adjective. For example, "Tá an aimsir níos fearr." - The weather is better.

When you want to use a construction containing the copula 'is' and 'ná' you'd use something along the lines of "Is óige mise ná tusa" - I am younger than you. This construction holds good for present or future tenses. Past or conditional tenses use 'níos ' or 'níb (before a vowel or fh+vowel)' or 'níba (before a consonant)'. For example, "Bhí an amsir níos measa (or níba mheasa)." - The weather was worse.

I hope this helps.

Le meas,

Larry.

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Larry (217.42.55.100 - 217.42.55.100)
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 06:11 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A chairde,

I've just re-read my last post and it looks a mess. Tá brón orm faoi sin. I know what I meant to say, but it hasn't come out quite the way I would have liked. I know what I meant to say - just have a problem saying it :)

>>>When using the verb 'Tá', the word 'níos' precedes the adjective. For example, "Tá an aimsir níos fearr." - The weather is better.

That was meant to serve as confirmation of the word order used by Al - 'níos' preceeding the adjective etc.

The grammar (as far as I know) is correct throughout the remainder of my previous post. But, as always, I'm open to discussion on that :)

Le meas,

Larry.

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Al Evans (208.188.101.145 - 208.188.101.145)
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 06:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Joe and Dawn (I can deal with "a Sheosaimh", but I'm not even gonna try for the vocative of "Dawn:-)

In "Seo an ceann gairid", the "Is" is understood, as I understand it, i.e., "Is seo an ceann garid."

"Tá an ceann gearr anseo" would be "The short one is here", which is not quite the same statement. I THINK you have to use "anseo" instead of "seo" when you use tá, but I'm not positive.

Since the sentence "this is the short one" is identifying the object, not describing it, I think the copula should be used.

I'm certainly ready to be corrected, though.

--Al Evans

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Larry (217.42.55.100 - 217.42.55.100)
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 09:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dawn, a chara,

To answer one of your earlier questions in this thread, yes - the difference between comparative and superlative is expressed merely by "níos sine" - (older) or "is sine" - (oldest)

Le meas,

Larry.

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James (199.112.55.122 - 199.112.55.122)
Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 02:09 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Dawn,

The comparative and superlative forms of adjectives are, generally speaking, the same as the genetive feminine form. However, they are preceded by "níos" in the present and "ní ba" plus the lenited form of the adjective in the past or conditional tenses. If the adjective begins with a vowel or f the "ba" contracts to "b'" To get the superlative, rather than contrastive, you preced with "is" in the present and ba for past and conditional unless the adjective begins with a vowel or f, in which case ba becomes ab + lenition.

Dubh = dark gen. fem. singular = duibhe

níos duibhe = darker; ní ba dhuibhe = would be darker (I think); is duibhe = darkest; ba duibhe = was, or would be darkest


ard = high or tall genetive fem. sing. = airde

níos airde = higher or taller; ní b'airde = was or would be taller; is airde = tallest ab airde = was or would be tallest

Now, if that's not confusing enough, there are a host of irregulars and "short" happens to be one of those irregulars.

gearr = short "níos giorra" = shorter

is giorra = shortest etc.

I have found a really concise book and every bit of this was taken directly from it. I highly recommend it to anyone struggling with the grammar rules and exceptions. (That would be just about every beginner.)

Irish Grammar: A basic handbook by Noel McGonagle

Hope this helps!

Le meas,

James

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Dawn (66.19.56.24 - 66.19.56.24)
Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Al, Larry, James,

Go raibh maith agaibh. Tá sibh níos cabhraí ná TYI! Haha. Hope that's right.........

Dawn

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