mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (July-September) » Grammar question.. « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

joey (68.172.1.230 - 68.172.1.230)
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 09:41 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

http://www.linguashop.com/EnglishSite/Web_Grammar_ScreenShot.jpg

in that picture is what im talking about


I wanna get that now so I can learn this because I've wanted to for a while. In the picture it shows a grammar lesson and tells you to put the 'n' infront of words with vowels. I understand that but it also puts 'd' and 'g' in front of words and doesn't explain it from what I can see.. I have this problem with the book I'm trying to learn from right now.


Teach Yourself Irish by Diarmuid ó Sé and Joseph Sheils

In the book theres a part about making words plural. It puts different endings on random words and doesn't explain why.

Can someone explain why the 'd' and 'g' go ahead of those words? Or if you have used TeachMe! Irish if it explains it further?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

James (199.112.55.62 - 199.112.55.62)
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 04:18 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Joey,

The letter that prefixes depends upon the letter it is prefixing. (Huh?) What I'm trying to say is that if the word begins with a "c" it gets a "g" for a prefixing letter. If it begins with a "d" it gets "n"---there's a whole list for this that I can't call to mind right now. I've got a good grammar book that I'll check and then I'll get back to you.

Le meas,

James

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

James (199.112.55.62 - 199.112.55.62)
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 08:44 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Joey,

This is what I've got for you. I'm not smart enough to have all of this off the top of my head. What I've done is condense some info that is in "Irish Grammar: A Basic Handbook" by Noel McGonagle. You can order it through just about any bookstore by the ISBN which is 0-7818-0667-4.

There are actually two instances where you'll see a letter in front of a word:

Eclipsis (called an Úru in Irish): It only occurs with consonants and then only with a few of them. Rather than remember the ones that take eclipsis it easier to remember the ones that DON'T take it. (MS. HaLoRaN)

Now that you know which ones DON'T take the Uru you now have to remember what letters eclipse which consonants. This isn't as daunting as it seems. It'll come to you rather quickly simply by reading and getting familiar with the language. Usually, you see it with the definite article "an".

B > mB

C > gC

D > nD

F > bhF

G > nG

P > bP

T > dT

As the name implies, the eclipsis "eclipses" the sound of the initial consonant. In other words you pronounce the new letter beginning letter.

Ar an mbord (aer ahn maurd)

The next place you'll see a letter in front of the root word will be, again, with the definite article. I don't think this is the same as eclipses, but I may be wrong.

In the singular nominative and accusative case "an" prefixes a "t" to masculine nouns beginning with a vowel.

An t-éan (The Bird)

And it prefixes a "t" to nouns with an intial consonant is "s" followed by a vowel or l,n,r.

An tsraid (The Street)

When the definite article is associated with a feminine noun, in a genetive relationship, it changes to "na" and prefixes an "h" to the feminine noun that begins with an vowel.

Máthair na hiníne The daughter's mother

OK--well, that should be just enough to confuse the heck out of you. Just think--we haven't even touched on lenition!

Adh mor ort!

Le meas,

James

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

James (199.112.55.62 - 199.112.55.62)
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 10:10 am:   Edit Post Print Post

It just occured to me that your question had nothing to do with the definite article!

The example you use in your attachment applies to possesive pronouns. The rules for them are as follows:

Mo (my)
Do (your)
A (his)

Requires lenition

A (hers)

Requires prefixing "h" to initial vowels

Ár (our)
Bhur (your, plural)
A (Their)

Require eclipsis to consonants and prefixing to vowels.

Lenition (Séimhu in Irish, meaning "to soften") is the adding of an "h" after the intial consonant. The way to remember the difference between what gets lenited and what gets eclipsed is to remember the brother and sister HaLoRaN.

HaLoRaN was a hard man who couldn't be softened

MS HaLoRaN was his sister and her beauty could not be eclipsed.

Hope this helps!

Le meas,

James

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Oliver Grennan (217.155.45.123 - 217.155.45.123)
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 09:22 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

And another thing:

Why is this site called 'Daltaí na Gaeilge' - shouldn't it be 'Daltaí na nGaeilge'?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maidhc Ó G. (65.129.68.109 - 65.129.68.109)
Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 09:06 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I think it's because Gaeilge, in this case, is female genetive singular. I think it would become "Daltaí na nGaeilgí" if it were plural.
-Maidhc.

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.


©Daltaí na Gaeilge