mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (July-September) » Translation « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

déirídh ob (168.169.89.50 - 168.169.89.50)
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 10:46 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia dhaoibh

it's not often that i'm on the pc, so i'd like to thank those that helped w/ the last message a few weeks back.
go raibh míle maith agaibh a Aonghuis 's Al
and i've a few more questions....
An bhfuil a fhios agaibh as Gaeilge:

1. "the land of St. Manchín"
this is referring to a place (a piece of land) that will be dedicated to St. Manchín

2. "St. Manchín"

3. "dark rosaleen"

4. "the bard of Armagh"

5. "our island"
referring to "island" in this case as a man-made island (crannog)

6. does anyone know of a place where i can find the poems, "song of amergin" and "the wish of St. Manchín of Líath," 'as Gaeilge?'

it's a pleasure reading the dialogue on this site.

le h-ard meas
déirídh

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

James (199.112.58.29 - 199.112.58.29)
Posted on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 06:39 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Dhéirídh:

This is my humble attempt. Hope it helps and hope it's right.


1. "the land of St. Manchín"
this is referring to a place (a piece of land) that will be dedicated to St. Manchín

Talamh Naomh Manchín. This refers to land as in terra firma as opposed to a region. I would think this would be more appropriate to a plot of land rather than say, a district. In that case I would use Tír as in Tír Chonail (check that spelling, though.)

2. "St. Manchín"

Naomh Manchín

3. "dark rosaleen"

Roislín Dubh

4. "the bard of Armagh"

An Bard as Ar Mhaca or possibly An Bard Ar Mhaca

5. "our island"
referring to "island" in this case as a man-made island (crannog)

Ár Oileán. My resources use crannog for things small like a pulpit or a small pier perhaps. I think Oileán will suffice. If not go with Ár Crannog.

This is by no means authoritative. Let's wait and see what the rest of the crowd has to say.

Le meas,

James

P.S. I think "an-mheas" would sound better to the native ear than "ard". I've always thought of "ard" to indicate actual height in most cases and social status or heirarchy in others. If your intent is along the lines of "great respect" or "the utmost respect" then an-mheas may be a better choice.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maidhc Ó G. (65.128.200.193 - 65.128.200.193)
Posted on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 11:36 am:   Edit Post Print Post

According to "An Foclóir Beag", a 'crannóg' is a fort or residence house on a semi-manmade island in a lake in the old law.
So, "Our Island" may be either "Ár nOileán" or maybe "Inis Sinn"?
I'd still wait for more.
-Maidhc.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus (193.120.237.66 - 193.120.237.66)
Posted on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 10:11 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Talamh Naomh Mainchín - however: "land" would be an unusual word in this context; the purpose of the land would probably be used e.g. Díseart Mhainchín - Mainchín's refuge

Roisín Dubh is a figure for Ireland often used in songs; this is usually translated to english as Dark Rosaleen.

Bard (or file) Árd Mhacha

Ár gCrannóg


There is a version of Amergin's song in Croí Cine
I'll research the other
PS James: árd mheas is common usage!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

james (199.112.58.40 - 199.112.58.40)
Posted on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 01:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Aonghuis,

Go raibh mile maith agat. I guess I was wrong about how árd mheas would sound to the native ear!! I count on you to keep me straight. Now, if I could just get you to record several hundred hours of conversation so I could get the pronunciation and accent right!!

árd mheas,

James

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus (159.134.62.177 - 159.134.62.177)
Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 04:36 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Listen to RnaG!
You'll get exposed to a wide range of native speakers
They're on the internet 24 hrs a day
www.rnag.ie

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

James (199.112.58.37 - 199.112.58.37)
Posted on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 05:28 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Ceart go leor! I've got RnaG on my favorites at home. Unfortunately, I'm out of the country for a while and have sporadic access to a shared computer.

I'll keep at it with the tapes and texts, though!

Le meas,

James

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

déirídh (216.42.122.145 - 216.42.122.145)
Posted on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 12:02 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh míle maith agaibh.
would it be improper to use "tír" with "St. Manchín," as in "Tír Chonaill," "Tír Eógain, "Tír Tairngire?" i'm looking for something more poetic than literal, and something as short as possible.
gabh mo leithscéal, ach cad é "Croí Cine?" (is mór an t-eallach an t-aineolas)

has anyone seen Leabhar Mòr Na Gaeilge? if so, cad do bharúil?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

déirídh (216.42.67.49 - 216.42.67.49)
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 12:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh míle maith agaibh.
would it be improper to use "tír" with "St. Manchín," as in "Tír Chonaill," "Tír Eógain, "Tír Tairngire?" i'm looking for something more poetic than literal, and something as short as possible.
gabh mo leithscéal, ach cad é "Croí Cine?" (is mór an t-eallach an t-aineolas)

has anyone seen Leabhar Mòr Na Gaeilge? if so, cad do bharúil?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

d. obhríutháinn (168.169.123.65 - 168.169.123.65)
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 11:59 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh míle maith agaibh.
would it be improper to use "tír" with "St. Manchín," as in "Tír Chonaill," "Tír Eógain, "Tír Tairngire?" "Tír Mainchín?" i'm looking for something more poetic than literal, and something as short as possible.

A Aonghuis, gabh mo leithscéal, ach cad é "Croí Cine?" (is mór an t-eallach an t-aineolas)

has anyone seen Leabhar Mòr Na Gaeilge? if so, cad do bharúil?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus (159.134.63.155 - 159.134.63.155)
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 04:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Croí Cine - leabhar atá ann le sliochta as litríocht na Gaeilge le míle bliain anuas. Séan de Fréine an tEagarthóir. Táim díreach tar éis teach a aistríú, agus ní féidir liom lámh a chuir ar mo chóip faoi láthair.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

déirídh (216.42.66.220 - 216.42.66.220)
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 10:25 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

níl deifir
idir an dá linn......an bhfuil fios agat where i might get a copy? i've looked at amazon, bookfinder, etc., w/out success.
hope things settle down soon for you so that we might hear more from you.
Go raibh míle maith agat

nára dtite bhur ndíon isteach
nára dtite bhur muintir amach

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus (159.134.62.20 - 159.134.62.20)
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 05:22 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá an cosúileacht air go bhfuil sé as cló.
Níl aon ISBN air an leabhar.
Ach seo sliocht ann atá cuirthe síos do Naomh Manchán :
Mian Mhainchín Léith

Ba mhaith liom, a Dhé bhí
A Rí shuthain shean
Bothán diamhar díthreabha
Agamsa mar theach

(An chuid eile, agus Rosc Amerghín amarach le cúnamh Dé: tá sé déanach)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

déirídh (216.42.67.216 - 216.42.67.216)
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 06:34 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

sin go hiontach!
sláinte an bhradáin chugat

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus (159.134.63.154 - 159.134.63.154)
Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 02:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Ba mhaith liom, a Dhé Bhí,
A Rí shuthain shean,
Bothán diamhair díthreabha,
Agamsa ma theach.

Fáschoill álainn chóngarach,
Uime ar gach leith,
Áitreabh éanalith ilghothach
Faoi chlúid ann, á gceilt.

Eaglais aoibhinn anartach,
Áitreabh Dé ó neamh;
Coinnle ann go solasmhar
Os Scrioptúr glan geal.

Manchán Naofa: Mian Mhancháin Léith
(d'éag 625)
(Croí Cine, lch 30, ní heol dom cé dhéan an leagan Nua Ghaeilge seo)

Is gaoth ar muir mé,
Is tonn treathain na farraige,
Is glór na mara,
Is damh seacht beann,
Is seabhac ar aill,
Is dealán gréine,
Is áilleacht luibheanna,
Is torc ar gail,
Is bradán i linn,
Is loch i maigh,
Is briathair aindéithe,
Is focal éigse.

Mise suí eagna,
Mise an draoi,
Mise gaoth ar muir.
Dan Aimheirgín
(Croí Cine, lch 11, ní heol dom cé dhéan an leagan Nua Ghaeilge seo)

Croí Cine, Seán de Fréine
Foilsithe ag An Clóchomhar Tta, Baile Átha Cliath, 1990

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

déirídh (216.42.122.36 - 216.42.122.36)
Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 10:34 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh míle maith agatsa!
if i were to post a couple of different translations(béarla)of Dan (?Dán?) Aimheirgín, would you tell me your preference?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus (159.134.63.88 - 159.134.63.88)
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 04:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I'd try.
But be aware that both poems above are translations from Old Irish to Modern Irish, and I'm no scholar.

I've seen a different new Irish translation of Dán Aimhergín

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

déirídh (216.42.67.31 - 216.42.67.31)
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 11:03 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

glad to hear that you're no scholar.
i've seen so many versions, w/ so much difference, i'm curious as to which one you feel to be closest to the original. all of them seem to be pretty loose. (cha dhiúlt peann breug)

seo dhuit!


1)

I am a stag:of seven tines,
I am a flood:across a plain,
I am a wind:on a deep lake,
I am a tear:the Sun lets fall,
I am a hawk:above the cliff,
I am a thorn:beneath the nail,
I am a wonder:among flowers,
I am a wizard:who but I
Sets the cool head aflame with smoke?

I am a spear:that roars for blood,
I am a salmon:in a pool,
I am a lure:from paradise,
I am a hill:where poets walk,
I am a boar:ruthless and red,
I am a breaker:threatening doom,
I am a tide:that drags to death,
I am an infant:who but I
Peeps from the unhewn dolmen, arch?

I am the womb:of every holt,
I am the blaze:on every hill,
I am the queen:of every hive,
I am the shield:for every head,
I am the tomb:of every hope.

Robert Graves


2)

I am the wind which blows over the sea;
I am the wave of the ocean;
I am the murmur of the billows;
I am the ox of the seven combats;
I am the vulture upon the rock;
I am a tear of the san;
l am the fairest of plants;
I am a wild boar in valour;
I am a salmon in the water;
I am a lake in the plane.

I am a word of science;
I am the spear-point that gives battle;
I am the god who creates or forms in the head of man the fire of thought.

Who is it that enlightens the assembly upon the mountain, if not I?
Who tells the ages of the moon, if not I ?
Who shows the place where the san goes to rest if not I?
Who calls the cattle from the House of Tethra ?
On whom do the cattle of Tethra smile?
Why is the god that fashions enchantments -
- the enchantment of battle and the wind of change?

Leabhar Gabhàla


3)
I am the wind on the sea;
I am the wave of the sea;
I am the bull of seven battles;
I am the eagle on the rock;
I am a flash from the sun;
I am the most beautiful of plants;
I am a strong wild boar;
I am a salmon in the water;
I am a lake in the plain;
I am the word of knowledge;
I am the head of the spear in battle;
I am the god that puts fire in the head;
Who spreads light in the gathering on the hills?
Who can tell the ages of the moon?
Who can tell the place where the sun rests?

Lady Gregory

4)
I am the wind that blows across the sea;
I am the wave of the deep;
I am the roar of the ocean;
I am the stag of seven battles;
I am the hawk on the cliff;
I am a ray of sunlight;
I am the greenest of plants;
I am a wild boar;
I am a salmon in the river;
I am a lake on the plain;
I am the word of knowledge;
I am the point of a spear;
I am the lure beyond the ends of the earth;
I can shift my shape like a god

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus (159.134.62.185 - 159.134.62.185)
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 05:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

deirídh
Part of the problem is that, as far as I know there is no authoritative old Irish text, so the english translation will vary depending on what version was being translated.

In addition, the poem has a lot of mystical language, and I believe some of the transaltion of the old Irish in it is conjecture.

So I'm reluctant to nail my colors to any poem above.
I have two versions of the poem in Modern Irish.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

deirídh (216.42.122.108 - 216.42.122.108)
Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 12:33 am:   Edit Post Print Post

fair enough. are there any of the translations above that you feel could be "eliminated?"
i'd be interested in seeing the other version in mod. irish (níl deifir)
Go raibh maith agat

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus (159.134.62.133 - 159.134.62.133)
Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 06:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

No, I wouldn't eliminate any of them.
My understanding is that the point of the poem is that the poet is at the heart of everything, and the repitition of the various "central" things is hammering that home. I guess they all get that.

I'll work on the other, I've just moved house so I can't always lay my hand on books.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

deirídh (216.42.122.27 - 216.42.122.27)
Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 09:36 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

níl deifir

ceist eile: "a" vs. "the":
my understanding has been that Amergín is proclaiming to be these "things;" not just one ("a") but THE thing (i.e., THE salmon, not just A salmon). in other words, "i am salmon," not "i am a salmon, one of many"
cad do bharúil?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus (159.134.63.222 - 159.134.63.222)
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 05:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Maidir le do cheist. Níl me cinnte
the salmon = an bradán
Ach níl fhíos agam conas a úsaidtí an alt sa tSean Ghaeilge

-----------
Rosc Aimheirgin
Aimheirghin Glúngheal mac Míle a chan

Mé gaoth ar muir
mé tonn díleann
mé glór mara
mé damh seacht mbeann
mé seabhac den aill
mé dealán gréine
mé áilleacht fáis
mé torc ar ghail
mé bradán sa linn
mé loch ar mhá

mé suí eagna
mé ga faoi bhua ag slaí sa chath

mise a adhnas tinfeadh cinn

cé hé a mhíníos clochar sleibhe?
cé hé a áirmhíos trátha éasca?
cé dó is eol cá bhfuineann grian?

gair an draoi go gcanaidh briocht díbh

mise an draoi

mé gaoth ar muir

Fuaireas é seo i Athdhánta, Tomás Ó Floinn, foilsithe ag
Cló Morainn, 1969. Tá an nóta seo leanas ag dul leis

An buntéacs le fáil in Irische Texte III lth 61-62
De réir Lebor Gabála Érenn do chan Aimheirgin file, duine de ochtar
mac Míle, na línte seo nuair a thainig sé i dtír in Éirinn den chéad uair
ag Inbhear Scéine i gCo. Chiarraí. Mar a deirtear ann:
"Ic tabairt a choisse dessi in hEirinn, asbert Amairgen Glungel mac Míled in laíd seo sís"
(Ag tabhairt a choise deise in Éirinn, dúirt Aimheirghin Glúngheal mac Míle an laoi seo thíos)
........
Níl nualeagan anseo ach ar chuid den dán bunaidh, de bhrí na tagartha a bheith ró-dhoiléir i gcuid de
agus i gcuid eile narbh inaistrithe iad más intuigthe féin iad.

Tá leagan níos faide de Mhian Mhancháin Léith sa leabhar céanna.
Oíche eile, bhfeidir!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dennis (12.207.200.38 - 12.207.200.38)
Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 12:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

D'úsáidtí an t-alt sa tSean-Ghaeilge mórán mar a úsáidtear anois é, go bhfios dom.

Am gaeth i m-muir,
Am tond trethan,
Am fuaim mara,
Am dam secht ndirend,...

The caveat being that archaic-style verse tends to be terse and the article is used sparingly. Instead of translating "am fuaim mara" as "I am the sound of the sea" or "I am a sound of the sea" (never mind the embellished "the murmur of the billows" or "the roar of the ocean"!), it might be truer to translate it literally as "I am sound of sea", and the other lines accordingly.

For more information on Old Irish, you might want to join the Old-Irish-L list.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Meoin Céasta (217.155.45.123 - 217.155.45.123)
Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 03:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dennis,

Inis dúinn freagra an thomhais a chuir tú ar www.beo.ie le do thoil. Ba mhaith liom codladh a fháil.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dennis (12.207.200.38 - 12.207.200.38)
Posted on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 01:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá go maith. An réiteach is fearr liomsa ná "an ithir", ach níl aon réiteach údarásach ann dáiríre.

Dóibh siúd nach bhfaca an tomhas, seo agaibh é:

Am sen. (Tá mé sean.)
Saílim errach. (Táim ag súil leis an earrach.)
Am úar. (Tá mé fuar.)
Saílim sam. (Táim ag súil leis an samhradh.)
Am gortach. (Tá ocras orm.)
Saílim fogamar. (Táim ag súil leis an bhfómhar.)
Am scíth. (Tá tuirse orm.)
Saílim gam. (Táim ag súil leis an ngeimhreadh.)

Cía messe? (Cé mise?)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus (159.134.63.40 - 159.134.63.40)
Posted on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 03:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Mian Mhancháin Léith
Manchán Léith a chan

Ba mhaith liom, a Mhic Dé bhí,
a rí suthain sean,
bothán diamhair díthreabha
agamsa mar theach.

Srutháinín tré-ghlan tanaí
a bheith lena thaobh
is linn ghlan do ní pheacaí
trí rath Spioraid Naomh

Fáschoill álainn comhgharach
uime ar gach leith
áitreabh éanlaith ilghotach
faoi chlúid ann á gceilt.

Aghaidh le teas do deisceartach,
sruthán thar a ghléib,
talamh torthúil toirbheartach
ba mhaith do gach préamh.

Líon beag ógfhear creidiúnach
(inneosfad díbh an líon)
is iad go humhal géilliúnach
ag síorghuí an Rí.

Ceithre thriúr, trí cheathrar
ag riar ar gach leas:
dhá sheisear ins an eaglais
idir thuaidh agus theas.

Sé dhís mar áireamh breise
in éineacht liom féin
ag guí go bráth na breithe
an Rí ghluaiseas gréin.

Eaglais aoibhinn anartach
áitreabh Dé ó neamh
coinnle ann go solasmhar
os scrioptúir glan geal.

Teach coiteann linn chun freastal
ar riachtainais choirp
gan graostacht gan ghaisce
gan smaoineamh an oilc.

Is é an barra bhainfinnse
is thoghfainn gan cheist
fíorchaineann cumhra, cearca,
bradáin bhreaca, beich.

Leor de bhia is de bhrat dom
ór Rí is caoin cáil
mo bheithse seal im shuí ann
ag guí Dé san áit.

Fuaireas é seo i Athdhánta, Tomás Ó Floinn, foilsithe ag
Cló Morainn, 1969. Tá an nóta seo leanas ag dul leis


Tá buntéacs an dain seo le fáil in Ériu I lth 39. Comad Mhancháin Léith
a thugtar ar an dan sa lámhscríbhinn. Meastar gur cumadh an dán bunaidh
san deichiú céad. Tá Liath Mhancháin in iarthar Cho. Ua bhFáighle, agus is
ansin, is cosúil, a bhí conaí ar an Mhanchan a gcuirtear an dán seo
ina leith.

Is cosúil on méid sin, a dheirídh, gurbh í "Liath Mhancháin" freagra na ceiste a chur tú ar dtús!
Luann Dineen "Liath" mar cuid de logainm, agus tugann sé "region" mar buaile faoi thuairim ar an mbrí

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

déirídh (216.42.122.53 - 216.42.122.53)
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 12:02 am:   Edit Post Print Post

anois! Go raibh míle maith agatsa! i truly appreciate your time. i've been chiseling away since your post, trying to sort all of this in my mind.
btw i'm not certain that i understand your last line ("Luann Dineen "Liath" mar...")....could you help me?

is trom an t-uallach aineólas

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 03:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Dineens dictionary mentions that Liath turns up in place names, and suggests "region" as a possible meaning - but there is no certainty.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lulux (193.250.153.214 - 193.250.153.214)
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 08:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

hello. i don't speak irish and just a little english. is there somebody who can tell me what means moppy? thanks

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.


©Daltaí na Gaeilge