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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (January-June) » Tuatha De Danaan « Previous Next »

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Araihc (24.233.50.224 - 24.233.50.224)
Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 01:17 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Hi! I'm new here, and I have several questions regarding spelling, pronunciation, and translation of TUATHA DE DANAAN.

1) I have seen it spelled several ways, is there a 'correct form', or are there several acceptable spellings? (and accent placements)

2) What is the correct pronunciation? Please give me the pronunciation in basic phoenetic form (with examples as needed).

3) I know that 'it' means ~people of the goddess Danu. Please break down the parts individually (e.g. what does Danaan 'mean').

Thank you!!!

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James (209.48.182.219 - 209.48.182.219)
Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 02:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I found this site to be pretty informative. It gives a reasonable pronunciation and a very detailed history/accounting of who the Tuatha De Dannan were and where they fit into the history of Ireland.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/sidhe/tuatha.html

Hope this helps.

James

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James (209.48.182.219 - 209.48.182.219)
Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 04:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Tuath is a country, or a community depending on the context. De translates to "god" but in this case "godess". Dannan is most likely a declension of the proper noun Danu. At least, that's how it seems to me.

Don't quote me on any of this--wait for some others to ring in---I'm still too new to be much help beyond basic phrases and basic grammar issues.

Le meas,

James

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James Murphy (217.78.1.3 - 217.78.1.3)
Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 09:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Tuatha - people, folk, tribe; De/ - genitive of Dia - god; Danann - genitive of 'Danu' (modern Irish Dana), the old Irish mother-godess.
TOOuhuh DAY or JAY DONunn.
I think that's it.

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James (209.48.182.219 - 209.48.182.219)
Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 10:32 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Why the double use of the genetive?

I can see the genetive regarding De--showing the genetive relationship between the community/people (Tuatha) and the god (De). The genetive relationship of Danu (Danann) isn't so clear to me.

Le meas,

James

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James Murphy (217.78.1.3 - 217.78.1.3)
Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 11:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

James- I'm not sure to be quite honest, I'm a learner like yourself and I've a long way to go yet.
Here's something similar from "Oro, se do bheatha 'bhaile": "A Shearlais oig, a mhic riogh (gen. of ri) Sheamuis (gen.)...."
Perhaps "Dia" was used as a title before the name "Danu".

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James (209.48.182.219 - 209.48.182.219)
Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 11:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Makes sense--do you have the words to Oro, se do bheatha 'bhaile ? I've got them in a CD jacket from the Irish Tenors but there are so many typos that it's beyond frustrating.

I've also heard several versions. I much prefer a version I have on a sean nos CD by Daithi O Caithin (probably butchered that spelling) but, of course, there are no lyrics in the jacket.

Go raibh maith agat.

James

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Aonghus (193.120.237.66 - 193.120.237.66)
Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 03:09 am:   Edit Post Print Post

You should remember that Tuath De Danann is a very ancient phrase and it's grammar is likely to be that of Old Irish rather than modern Irish, which is
a) simplified, with less cases
b) words have changed

I believe Tuath originally referred to a group of peole, and later came to mean where that particular group lived.

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Siobhán (195.93.34.13 - 195.93.34.13)
Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 06:55 am:   Edit Post Print Post

James,
Found this on google for Oro se do bheatha 'bhaile. It gives the Irish, the English and a pronounciation guide.

http://academic.evergreen.edu/w/williams/oro_se_do_bheatha_bhaile.html

Also, are you familiar with Sinead O' Connor? She does a nice version of the song on her album Sean-Nos Nua. Will do a search and see if I can come up with further info.

Slán

Siobhán

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James Murphy (217.78.1.219 - 217.78.1.219)
Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 06:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

The lyrics I quoted are from a Jacobite version (I think there are several versions) of the song which I came across some time ago on the internet.
I think the version about Grainne Ni Mhaille in the link above is the most popular.

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James (206.134.249.182 - 206.134.249.182)
Posted on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 10:22 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Shiobhán,

Go raibh maith agat! That's the version I've been looking for!!! A Shéamus, your version is probably the one that's on the Irish Tenor's CD jacket that I referenced above. The version Siobhán linked me to is exactly, word for word, the version on my sean nos CD. Thanks to you both!

Le meas,

James

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