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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (April-June) » Éire vs. Éirinn « Previous Next »

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Bradford (66.231.2.16 - 66.231.2.16)
Posted on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 09:12 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A chairde,

Somewhere I remember reading that Éire and Éirinn are not interchangeable terms. Does one refer to the Republic and one to the island itself?

If someone could clarify this for me I would be most appreciative.

Slán,

Bradford

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Pádraig Mac G. (205.244.12.112 - 205.244.12.112)
Posted on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 10:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Bradford,

I notice Oliver's been lurking about tonight and that's good, because I may be stepping out of my depth here.

I think Éire is one of those rare nouns that has a separate inflection for what in Latin is called the Dative case (indirect object in English) and that form is Éirinn. I'm guessing that it would be acceptable to use the common form (Éire) for the dative, but Éirinn ought not be used in place of Éire.

Slán,
Pádraig

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Antóin (159.134.181.17 - 159.134.181.17)
Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 07:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Éire is the official Irish language form of Ireland as used on stamps, coins, official forms etc.

In the Irish language there are different forms for the different cases: -

Éire (nominative)
Éireann (genetive singular) e.g. Muintir na hÉireann - the people of Ireland. The 'h' is included because of a grammatical rule which I wont go into here.
Éirinn (dative singular) In Éirinn - in Ireland,

The form "Erin" is another anglisized form often encountered in English language poetry or in slogans, e.g. "Erin go bragh"

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inquisitive. (155.198.17.120 - 155.198.17.120)
Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 09:35 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Can you explain the use of the "h" in Munitir na hÉireann ?? Please!

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Seosamh (12.42.245.2 - 12.42.245.2)
Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 06:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Padraig and Antoin are right except Padraig got it reversed in his last sentence.

Éirinn, the old dative, displaced the nominative in the speech of most Irish speakers some time back. That's why you have the slogan that everyone knows: Éirinn go brach/bragh [sic].

One native speaker on the e-mail lists once wrote that he first encountered 'Éire' on coins and notes.

Another noun where the dative has replaced the nominative is abhainn 'river' which was originally abha in the nominative.

Many nouns have dative forms and a good number of native speakers still use them, especially Donegal speakers, I think.

The 'h' is prefixed to feminine nouns that begin with a vowel after the article in the genitive singular.

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alec1 (62.254.104.44 - 62.254.104.44)
Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 06:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

The use of a h say in front of Éireann is simply an aid to pronunciation

As you may have noticed--the use of the 'H' in front of a vowel generally follows a word of which the last letter is a vowel

Muintir nA hÉireann

It would sound sooooo baaaaad to say Na Éireann- so what evolved was that the language automatically avoids those bad sound moments- and arranges for a lovely 'h' in there to smooth it all over.

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Bradford (66.231.2.32 - 66.231.2.32)
Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 06:35 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat, a chairde, for your answers to my question. I appreciate it!

Slán,

Bradford

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Oliver Grennan (193.122.47.162 - 193.122.47.162)
Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 07:12 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Just while we're on the subject, "The Republic of Ireland" is not the official title of Ireland in English, it is merely a description.
In the Irish Constitution of 1937 the name of the country is stated to be: "Ireland, or in the Irish language, Éire."
When the Republic was declared in 1949, there was no amendment to the name of the country, so the term "Republic of Ireland" remains merely descriptive.
Only in Ireland, eh?

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Seosamh (12.42.245.2 - 12.42.245.2)
Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 06:03 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

GRMA, a Oliver.

Is rud maith 'bheith soiléir faoi sin.

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max matthews (62.254.0.7 - 62.254.0.7)
Posted on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 02:55 am:   Edit Post Print Post

For those who do not know, these are the first words of the Constitution:
In Ainm na Tríonóide Ró-Naofa is tobar don uile údarás agus gur chuici, ós í is críoch
dheireanach dúinn, is dírithe ní amháin gníomhartha daoine ach gníomhartha Stát,
Ar mbeith dúinne, muintir na hÉireann, ag admháil go huiríseal a mhéid atáimid faoi chomaoin ag
Íosa Críost, ár dTiarna Dia, a thug comhfhurtacht dár sinsir i ngach cruatan ina rahhadar ar
feadh na gcéadta bliain, Agus ar mbeith dúinn ag cuimhneamh go buíoch ar a chalmacht a
rinneadarsan troid gan staonadh chun an neamhspleáchas is dual dár Náisiún a bhaint amach,
Agus ar mbeith dúinn á chur romhainn an mhaitheas phoiblí a chur ar aghaidh maille le Críonnacht
agus le hÍonracas agus le Carthanacht de réir mar is cuí, ionas go dtiocfaidh linn a uaisleacht
agus a shaoirse a chur in Áirithe do gach aon duine, saol ceart comhdhaonnach a bhunú , aiseag
a haontachta a thabhairt dár dtír, agus comhcharadra a dhéanamh le núisiúin eile, Atáimid leis
seo ag gabháil an Bhunreachta seo chugainn, agus á achtú agus á thíolacadh dúinn féin.

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Phil (159.134.209.7 - 159.134.209.7)
Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 02:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Éire = Ireland (Plain and simple)

Is maith liom Éire.
Tá Éire go hálainn.

-

Éireann = OF Ireland (Posessive case. There's always a noun behind it).

Daoine na hÉireann ('na' because Éire is feminine)
Bunracht na hÉireann.

-

Éirinn = Ireland (Dative case)

Alot of people just say Dative case and leave it at that. My Irish teacher told me you use Éirinn with a preposition.

D'fhág an fear Éire, ach tamall ina dhiaidh sin, tháinig sé ar ais go hÉirinn.

Dia = God.
Dé = God (Dative case).

Is maith liom Dia.
Guigí chun Dé. (Pray to God).

There's only a handful of nouns that have the Dative case as far as I know.

-Phil

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Phil (159.134.209.7 - 159.134.209.7)
Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 02:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Sorry, forgot to mention the one exception to the above I'm aware of:

Is as Éire dom.

-Phil

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Gail (172.191.119.98 - 172.191.119.98)
Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 08:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I know that Éire means Ireland but doesn't it have a more specific meaning?

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Antóin (159.134.180.32 - 159.134.180.32)
Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 06:12 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Gail: "I know that Éire means Ireland but doesn't it have a more specific meaning?"

No. Not that I'm aware of anyway.

Phil:- "Dé = God (Dative case)." - Incorrect.
"Dé" is the genitive. The dative is the same as nominative, "Dia"

Slán

Antóin

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Phil (159.134.209.36 - 159.134.209.36)
Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 07:07 am:   Edit Post Print Post

nope.

Is maith liom Dia.
Faigh é in ainm Dé.
Guigh chun Dé.


-Phil

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Jonas (213.243.177.160 - 213.243.177.160)
Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 10:00 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Phil, Antóin is absolutely right. Dé is the genitive form, not the dative form. It is true that "Guigh chun Dé" is the correct form BUT chun is a preposition than is followed by the genitive, not the dative. Some prepositions take the genitive, such as chun, timpeall etc.

chun na h-oibre a dhéanamh = to do the work (oibre is the genitive of obair)

timpeall na h-áite = around the place (áite is the genitive of áit)

So: we say Guigh chun Dé , and the reason is that Dé is the genitive, not the dative

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Phil (159.134.209.224 - 159.134.209.224)
Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 02:49 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

My apologies.

-Phil

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