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Bradford
| Posted on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 09:06 pm: |
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A chairde, I am reviewing eclipsis material in Learning Irish (Ó Siadhail). Most of the information is straight forward, but the following footnote confuses me: "Although t, d are not affected, e.g. ar an doras, leis an tine, in all other cases where eclipsis is the rule, d changes to nd and t changes to dt." Ó Siadhail says that t and d aren't affected, but then he says they eclipse to nd and dt. What am I missing here? Of course he gives no examples of what he's saying! By the way, the dialect is Cois Fhairrge. Go raibh maith for your help! Slán, Bradford |
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Oliver Grennan
| Posted on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 10:22 pm: |
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Hi Bradford, I don't have a copy of O'S. He says "in all other cases", so he must have cited a case just previously where no eclipsis occurs. Give us the sentence just b4 this one. |
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Bradford
| Posted on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 10:36 pm: |
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A Oliver, That's the problem... All he does is give eclipsis examples before the text that I quoted. Here are the examples he gives, if that helps: cloch -> ar an gcloch pota -> faoin bpota gasúr -> leis an ngasúr mór bád -> ar an mbád fuinneoig -> ar an bhfuinneoig mhór fear -> leis an bhfear Perhaps you now have an appreciation for why I am so confused. :-) Slán, Bradford |
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Pádraig Mac G.
| Posted on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 11:36 pm: |
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A Chara Bradford, Taking this eclipsis matter one step at a time, WHEN initial D or initial T are eclipsed, they become ND and DT respectively. I believe the reference in O'S is to the rule that says words with initial D or T are not eclipsed after the definite article "an." Hence at the door = ag an doras, not ag an ndoras. He then goes on to reassert that in cases where the initial D and T are eclipsed, they become ND and DT. And yes there are times when words with initial T or D are eclipsed. One such case is when a verb follows the interrogative particle "an." (Which can easily be confused with the definite article.) Do you understand = "an dtugann tú?" The declarative form is "tugann tú" (no eclipse) An dtugann tú, mo chara? Slán, Pádraig |
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Bradford
| Posted on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 11:49 pm: |
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A Phádraig, a chara, Tuigim, mo chara. :-) Go raibh maith agat! What you say makes sense. I think Ó Siadhail's example was either poorly worded, poorly explained, or both. Le méas, Bradford |
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Phil
| Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 03:03 pm: |
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Chonaic mé é i ndiaidh an lae. 'i' takes an urú. Chonaic mé é i dteach na mainistir. - Tá an leabhar ar an mbord. "ar an" takes an urú. as does "leis an, faoin, as an, ag an, ón". I think it's called the accusative case. It takes an urú, but it has ONE irregualrity: Tá sé ag an doras. There definitely should be an urú on "doras". But the rule is that there isn't. Tá sé ag féachaint ar an dteilifís. I put an urú on a t. I've seen it written with and without. You have a choice whether to follow those rules. For example: An ólann tú? An n-ólann tú? Take your pick. Ag an doras. (my favourite) Ag an ndoras. Ar an teilifís. Ar an dteilifís. (my favourite) -Phil |
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Bradford
| Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 07:47 pm: |
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Phil, a chara, Go raibh maith agat for the examples! Slán, Bradford |
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Seosamh
| Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 03:27 pm: |
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"Ag an ndoras' is very Munsterish. |
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Bradford
| Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 03:34 pm: |
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A Sheosamh, Thank you very much for that clarification. I try to stick to Cois Fhairrge as much as possible. Slán, Bradford |
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