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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (January-June) » Translation please « Previous Next »

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Tomas OCathain (80.194.139.97 - 80.194.139.97)
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 06:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Could someone give me the grammatical correct translation into Irish of
"His eyes are blue. Understand?"

Go raibh maith agaibh

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James (209.48.182.219 - 209.48.182.219)
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 07:37 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Is gorm a súil.

That's as close as I can get. But, I've probably committed countless errors. I'm not sure what form to use with "understand" in the context above. It seems to be imperative, but I'm not sure.

You're probably better at this than I am.

Look forward to what smarter minds have to say.

Le meas,

James

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Oliver Grennan (193.122.47.162 - 193.122.47.162)
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 07:49 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia duit a Thomáis,
Seo duit,

"Tá a shúile gorm. Dtuigeann tú?"

NB
"Dtuigeann tú" is a contraction of "an dtuigeann tú". It's how it's said, you get me?

Not smarter, just had the benefit of an Irish edjemication :-)

Slán,

Oliver.

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James (209.48.182.219 - 209.48.182.219)
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 08:34 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

OK. I get the Tá a shúile gorm part. I do get the Tá and Is thing confused more often than not. Help me with the Dtuigeann thing. What form of the verb Tuig is it and where in the heck does the "D" come from??

Go raibh maith agat!

James

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Oliver Grennan (193.122.47.162 - 193.122.47.162)
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 08:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Hi James,

Remember, "Is" is used mainly for describing things using adjectives (is deas an rud é). "Tá" is used for statements of fact(tá an ghrian go h-ard sa spéir).

Tuigeann is the present tense of tuig, when asking a question you stick "an" bfore it and eclipse wherever possible; an mbíonn?, an ndeireann?, an ólann?, an ritheann?, an gcaitheann?

To ask a question you always begin with "an?" and this causes eclispis.

Fáilte is fichid roimh tuilleadh díospóireacht.

Slán,

Oliver.

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Pádraig Mac Gafraidh (205.244.12.170 - 205.244.12.170)
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 08:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Shéamais, A Chara,

I think what we're looking at here is the second person, singular, present tense form of túig: ie, túigeann tú which is eclipsed in the interrogative.

Breaking out the Christian Brothers...

"Verbs are eclipsed after the interrogative an"

When Oliver contracted the expression, he dropped the an, but he warned us.

An dtúigeann tú?
P.

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Pádraig Mac Gafraidh (205.244.12.170 - 205.244.12.170)
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 09:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Sorry about that fada on dtuigeann.

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james (209.48.182.219 - 209.48.182.219)
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 09:26 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

You guys amaze me! I'll get up to speed with you one day.

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Pádraig Mac Gafraidh (63.175.172.104 - 63.175.172.104)
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 10:22 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia dhuit, Oliver, a chara,

Prior to reading your last couple posts I would have been willing to wrestle anybody in eight feet of mud that "Is gorm iad a shúile" is every bit as correct as "Tá a shúile gorm."

In fact I have it on the highest authority (Oliver Grennan) that "Is iontach iad do gníomhartha" is OK. Have I missed a differential in these two expressions?

Now we're looking at only four feet of mud, but I'm still willing to wrestle.

Caidé a' ndeir tú, a dhuinne uasal? (Feel free to correct this as well. I was visiting with a Donegal denizen this past week and his k'jaymur tatoo rubbed off on me.)

Slán,
Pádraig

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Oliver Grennan (193.122.47.162 - 193.122.47.162)
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 11:25 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Phadraig,
It's difficult fot me to explain because I'm not grammatically minded. It's like I said in the post to James, the difference is between

1. Describing things using adjectives

Is ciúin an madra é seo.

This is a quiet dog (by nature)

2. Stating how things are.

Tá an madra ciúin.

The dog is quiet (at the moment, although he may have a savage nature)

As regards, describing the physical world, we almost always use "tá" because the colour of a person's eyes, for instance, are not likely to change.

Although it's not grammatically incorrect to say: "it's blue his eyes are" (is gorm iad a shúile) you wouldn't say it like that except perhaps in a poem.

I'd be happy to read a more informed post on this if someone would be kind enough to enlighten us.

Slan,

Oliver.

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Pádraig Mac Gafraidh (63.161.61.33 - 63.161.61.33)
Posted on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 01:11 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Oliver agus a chairde,

There's considerable disadvantage connected with not being immersed in the spoken language.

The experience I referred to in a prior post, that of hearing (and accepting) k'jaymer tatoo in place of Cad é mar atá tú and becoming involved with the speaker instead of the way he spoke is a reminder that language is an instrument of communication; not an end in itself. I found myself saying k'jaymer and Go My and Gr'mygut without wondering about my correctness. It was a good feeling.

It's a sad thing, it's true, but we geezers who came to the language so late and who live so far removed from native speakers must learn why things are said before we know how to say them.

Conversely, I spoke correct English before I knew a noun from a verb.

To those well versed in the language who must sometimes be tempted to mutter, "get a life, for god's sake," you may not know how very much some of us wish to speak this language. We wish it in a way that we really can't explain despite a recent series of attempts to do so on this forum. Unfortunately for many of us, the only avenue leading to mastering Irish is to ask an endless line of questions, many of which sound so 'stupid" as to make Mortimer Snerd look like a Rhodes Scholar.

Don't give up on us. Oiche Mhaith, mo chairde.

Beannacht,
Pádraig

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Tomas OCathain (62.31.117.28 - 62.31.117.28)
Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 10:20 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks for everyone's input, it was a big help.
By "Understand?" I really just meant "Do you understand?", but I wanted to say it with just the one word implying that question.

Padraig,
I know what you mean about K'jaymer :)
Learning the Munster Dialect "Conas ata tu?", I then started speaking with a girl from Newry and now it just doesn't feel right to say anything other than "Cad e mar ata tu"
Also, is there a big difference using "ata tu" and "ta tu"? is the latter just a shortened version?

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Tomas OCathain (62.31.117.28 - 62.31.117.28)
Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 10:28 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Oh, before I nearly forget....
I have been researching my geneology and was wondering about how to put something correctly into Irish.Basicaly my family was part of the Ui Neill dynasty and was wondering if that would translate as "Tuatha Ui Neill"? Or would it be more proper to call it by the formal name for that particular grouping of clans (Nothern O'Neil), if so what would be the grammatically correct translation of that be?

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Marie (193.1.100.103 - 193.1.100.103)
Posted on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 07:42 am:   Edit Post Print Post

'Cineál Eoghain' atá uait, a dhuine chóir.

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Diarmuid (193.1.100.103 - 193.1.100.103)
Posted on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 07:50 am:   Edit Post Print Post

'Ballyskenach' in county offaly. What would the exact translation to this be?

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Tomas OCathain (62.31.117.28 - 62.31.117.28)
Posted on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 08:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat, Marie.
But my understanding is that the 'Cineál Eoghain' is the branch of the Nothern O'Neill my family Sept - O'Cathain, are from (the other main one being the "Cineál Connail"). So would "Tuatha O'Neill" be the correct way to speak of them all together?

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Máire (193.1.100.104 - 193.1.100.104)
Posted on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 09:49 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá fáilte romhat a Thomáis.

'Síol Eoghain' sa chás sin.

(Ba spéis leat 'Topographical Poems', Carney, James, 1943)

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Tomas OCathain (80.194.148.101 - 80.194.148.101)
Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 05:38 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Hmm..are you sure, Maire. It is my understanding that Eoghain refers to the descendants of Eoghan -eldest son of Niall of the Nine Hostages. However I'm looking for the phrase that would cover "Nothern O'Neill" rather than the Cenel Eoghain branch...or have I lost it completely?

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Maidhc Ó Gáibhtheacháin (24.51.174.158 - 24.51.174.158)
Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 08:35 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Thomás, a chara,
According to Edward MacLysaght in his "The Surnames of Ireland"(sixth edition).
Cenél Conaill; The race name of the O'Gallaghers, O'Boyles and other families traditionally descended from Conall Gulban, son of Niall of the Nine Hostages, located in Tirconnell.(Co. Donegal)
Cenél Eoghain; the clan name of the O'Neills etc. descended from Eoghan, son of Niall of the Nine Hostages, located in Tyrone and south Derry.
Also, according to Dr. MacLysaght, the family surname (O)Kane, (O)Cahan - Ó Catháin. As lords of Keenaght, the O'Kanes were a leading sept in Ulster up until the time of the Plantation of Ulster. The name is still numerous in its homeland. It is then referred to the map location of Derry-Tyrone.
I hope this may help.
Slán,
Maidhc.

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Phil (159.134.224.106 - 159.134.224.106)
Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 08:20 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I'm no expert but here's what I know:

Tá dath gorm ar a shúile. An dtuigeann tú?

-Phil

BTW:

Turning "An dtuigeann tú?" into "Dtuigeann tú?".

That's english.

"Do you understand?" -> "You understand?"

Question -> Statement which is said in such a way that it's a question

"An dtuigeann tú?" -> "Tuigeann tú?"
"Do you understand?" -> "You understand?"

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Maidhc Ó G (24.51.175.20 - 24.51.175.20)
Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 12:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Phil, a chara,
Am I mistaken? Somehow, the flavor of the context of your last example seems to be one of possible disbelief from the person asking the question.
For example - Person "A" says something confusing. Person "B" then nods and says,"Tuigim." Person "C" still shaking his head in confusion over what Person"A" originally said, gives Person"B" a funny look and asks, "Tuigeann tú!?
An dtuigeann tú?
Slán,
Maidhc.

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