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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (April-June) » FINDING PROPER WORDS! « Previous Next »

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Eoin an Ógánach (194.125.133.220 - 194.125.133.220)
Posted on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 04:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia dhaoibh a cháirde,

Is it just me that gets disgusted by anglicised "Irish" words such as those listed blow? Blatant English words with funny spelling in the Irish language.

Mar shampla...

Páirceáil - Parking
Cliceáil - Click
Spúnóg - Spoon
Spórt - Sport
Ceamara - Camera

Does anybody know of any true Irish words which can be used instead of the above? And if there are no alternatives, perhaps somebody would like to have a crack at inventing some themselves... All it takes is someone with a unique mentally.

Mar shampla:

Gluais = move
Gluaisteán = car
(^ a true Irish word unlike the easy-way-out word, "carr")

The French word for "to park" is something like "stationner" i.e. to station your car. Maybe somebody can work off that for a new Irish word for parking?

If we can invent words for modern things such as driving (tiomáint) and the Internet (Idirlíon) then surely we can concoct alternative words for the above too. Let's not be so lazy!

Any help at all would be appreciated, even variations on the above words would be nice.

If you have any other replacement words for anglicised-Irish please add them below, e.g. telephone = GUTHÁN, not "telefón" !!!

Go raibh maith agaibh,

Eoin An Ógánach

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Oliver Grennan (193.122.47.162 - 193.122.47.162)
Posted on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 08:08 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Eoin, a chara,

Táim ar aon intinn leat faoi na focail ghraosta seo, an ainm a bhí ag mo cháirde orthú ná "heileacoptaer Irish" agus tá an ceart acú. Ach tá an fhaidbh céanna ag bagairt gach teanga ach amháin Béarla. En France, on va jouer le football pendant le weekend. Tá dualgas orainn áilleacht an Ghaeilge a chaomhnú agus an aistriú leisciúil seo a laghdú. Níl a fhios agam ach measaim go dtagann formhór de na focail seo as RTE agus na núachtáin i mBaile AC.

Tá cúpla molta agam.

Páirceáil - Parking - Stadadh
Cliceáil - Click - Brúigh (feictear go minic in ionad cliceáil)
Spúnóg - Spoon ?????
Spórt - Sport - Cluichí
Ceamara - Camera - Griangrafadóir

You know we learners are often shocked at the way native Irish speakers adopt words like these quite blithely and in the end it's the usage that wins out. Pé scéal é, is fearr dúinn éacht a dhéanamh chun ár dteanga bog binn milis a chosaint.

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Lúcas Ó Catháin (68.39.82.247 - 68.39.82.247)
Posted on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 09:51 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Chairde,

Gabhigí mo leithscéal ach cheapim gur ceacht gan bhrí focail nua a dhéanamh mar sin. I mo thuarim, is fearr "páirceáil" a fhoghlaim agus a bheith thuiscint ná "stadah" a dhéanamh suas ach gan a bheith a thuiscint.

Lúcas

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Oliver Grennan (193.122.47.162 - 193.122.47.162)
Posted on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 10:34 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Lúcais,
Feicim go bhfuil sé níos fusa a fhoghlaim ach cén leas a bhéadh air? Níl ach athrá atá ann le blas Gaelach.

I can see it's easier to learn but what good would it be? It's just repeating the English word with a Gaelic twist.

Pé scéal é. níl na roghanna ceaptha as an aer.

Anyway, the alternatives are not made up: as Eoin mentions, "gluaisteáin" for "car" literally means a "mover".

Is dócha gur ceist sásamh atá ann agus nuair a dtagann an liofacht ort b'fhéidir go mbeidh a mhalairt mar tuairim agat.

I suppose it's down to aesthetics and as you be come more proficient you'll probably change your view.

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Eoin an Ógánach (194.125.133.245 - 194.125.133.245)
Posted on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 04:32 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A chairde,

Sílim nach bhfuil orainn géilleadh do focla ar nós "páirceáil" má tá an focal "tiomáint" againn - níl sé cosúil le "driving" ar aon bhealach. Caithfidh gur tháinig an focal "tiomáint" isteach sa teanga sa bhliain 1930, nó am éigin mar sin, nuair a tháinig an gluaisteán go hEirinn. Cén fáth mar sin, nach bhfuil focal Gaeilge áirithe in ionad "páirceáil" ?

The modern practice of driving came in around the 1930s, a long time after the country became English-speaking. So if we have a real Irish word for "driving" (tiomáint), which bears no resemblence to the English word, why then don't we have one for "parking"?

While I appreciate that all languages are becoming leaked with English, I feel that if there are rich Irish words out there all ready it is our duty to use them. I also believe that we should use our mentality to come up with words instead of taking the easy way out and integrating the English word.

Go raibh míle maith agaibh.

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Tomas OCathain (80.194.148.5 - 80.194.148.5)
Posted on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 08:05 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I agree that we should try to come up with some original Irish words instead of Gaelicising English words. However, with the word "Car" I believe it was originally a Celtic word (probably Brythonic) and when the Romans developed their own chariots that they copied from the Celtic ones, they also used the Celtic name which they Latinised to "Currus", which is where we get the word "car" from today. So technically, "Car" is a word which is Celtic in origin

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Lúcas Ó Catháain (192.4.227.244 - 192.4.227.244)
Posted on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 12:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Thomais, a chara, agus a chairde eile,

Gabh mo leithscéal ach nil aontaím leat. We should not try to come up with some original Irish words instead of Gaelicising English words. While I am sympathetic to the argument about keeping the language "pure" let's be practical. Despite any efforts here or elswhere, it is not going to happen.

Irish is still a living language, buíochas le Dia, and as such, loan words regularly come into the language, or become Gaelicized. It is the natural course of events for any living langauge. Efforts to change that are universally ridiculed.

The French Academy, example, has been trying for decades to keep English words out of the French lexicon. It is a joke. It has not happenned.

There are about twenty Spanish "Academies" trying desparately to preserve the purity of the language. They can not even agree among themselves on a standard Spanish.

Even the canteoirí dúchais ignore the Caighdean Oifigiúil. I have a teacher from one of the Gaeltachtí who jokingly refers to the Christian Brothers as the Gaeilge Nazis because they teach a standard not spoken in the Gaeltacht.

Lets celebrate the language as it is, not as it should be.

Mise lea meas,

Lúcas

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Tomas OCathain (80.194.148.5 - 80.194.148.5)
Posted on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 01:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Lucas, a chara

You do make an interesting point and I can see where you are coming from. I suppose it is often more practical to simply let the language progress naturally which would involve an influx of words borrowed from foreign languages. However I worry that as time goes on that so many new words will have entered the language from outside sources that it becomes very diluted and more distant from the original tongue. We can see in our own time the difference between Old Irish and modern Irish. Some of this may be natuaral progression and I'm not really concerned with that. But words from other languages (such as Norse) also became added and while it may have enriched the language in some people's opinion, it also had the effect of removing a fraction more from the original tongue.

I'm not trying to advocate that we preserve Irish as some kind of unchangable antique language but I think the influx of new foreign words should be tempered with a desire to keep the tongue as pristine as we can.

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james (209.48.182.219 - 209.48.182.219)
Posted on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 05:22 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

nil aontaím libh!!!

Following this train of thought (the keep Irish pure one, that is), I guess we should still be speaking of bare bodkins and fardles.

Language is a living entity. To exclude the foreign influence, especially in this electronic age, is an impossibility.

I really appreciate the sentiment, guys, but come on---look at all the loan words that exist in english. Kindergarten, sushi, croissant---should these be called "child care and enrichment center", "raw fish, prepared in a trendy fashion" and "funny little piece of twisted bread" just to keep english "pure"????

Can't support you on this one! A standard Irish--OK, I can support that. But I can't support an effort to creat new Irish words to describe things that would naturally matriculate into the language through popular use. The language belongs to the people that speak it and it will grow and develop only at their will, not at the behest of the "language Nazis." Let the language evolve as a natural process, not some contrived effort.

Le meas,

James

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Eoin an Ógánach (194.125.133.245 - 194.125.133.245)
Posted on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 06:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I accept the point that all languages "borrow" words from other languages.

Glacaim le bhur bpointe go bhfaigheann gach teanga focla ar iasacht ó dteangacha eile.

However, I do feel that some languages fit in with other languages more easily - the French language can accept 100% English words and simply change the accent to make them French. The spelling sometimes need not be changed because French spelling is similar to English.

Ceapaim go nglacann teangacha áirithe ar nós na Francaise, áfach, le foclaí iasachta níos nádúrtha. Baintear úsáid as an litriú céanna go minic nuair a chuirtear Fraincís i mBéarla agus Béarla i bhFraincís.

With Irish, though, the spelling must be changed and therefore words such as "páircéail" look ridiculous.

Nuair a thagann focla Béarla isteach sa teanga Gaeilge, níl an litriú ró-nádúrtha mar thoradh.

I must admit however that not much can be done to stop the growing English influence - new diseases which have been discovered are almost impossible to re-name as Gaeilge.

Caithfidh mé a admháil, áfach, go bhfuil an ceart agaibh nach bhfuil móran gur féidir linn a dhéanamh leis an bhfadhb seo. Tuigim go bhfuil sé an-deacair focal nua a chum do galair.

If you look in Niall Ó Dónaill's "Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla" there are so many directly translated diseases that I feel that we should allow these and these only.

Tá an oiread sin foclaí a bhaineann le galair a thagann ón mBéarla (nach féidir linn a athrú), agus mar sin sílim nach bhfuil sé ceart níos mó focla Béarla a ligint isteach sa teanga.

Using "teileafóin" instead of "guthán", however, I feel is unexcusable. I feel that it is up to us, the remaining speakers of Irish, to stop bad habits such as those above.

Ach ní aontaím chor ar bith le bheith ag úsáid foclaí ar nós "teileafóin" in ionad "guthán".

Ná bí ró-díon orm le bhur dtoil!

Take it easy on me if you can!

Le meas,

Eoin an Ógánach

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Oliver Grennan (193.122.47.178 - 193.122.47.178)
Posted on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 08:57 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Eoin, a chara,

Tá ceartucháin amháin agam duit. Ba chóir duit a scríobh: "Ná bí ró-dhían orm le bhur dtoil!"
díon = roof
dían = hard, stern.

Cuireann "an" agus "ró" séimhiú ar an focail a leanann i gcónaí:

an-mhaith, ró-dheacair, mímhúinte, fíor-thabhachtach.

Ag trácht ar focail Bhéarlach nua ag teacht isteach go Gaeilge, ná déanaigí dearmad go bhfuil sí ceann de na 4000 teangacha atá ar imeall bháis agus ina theannta sin is é caomhnú atá an rud is tábhachtaí, faroir. Ach tagann taom feirge orm mar tá cumas an leisciúilacht ar cuid mhór de na focail seo, e.g. "athlódáil" mar "reload". Seafóid.

Talking about new English coming into Irish, it's important to bear in mind that it's is one of the 4000 odd languages on the brink of extinction so preservation is the order of the day, unfortunately. But what is really annoying is that many of these words just look like laziness .

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james (63.183.137.120 - 63.183.137.120)
Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 12:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Your point about the threat of extinction is well taken. I saw a piece on a U.S. evening program about the last surviving speaker of an Alaskan Indian language. It was incredibly sad. This lady, perhaps 100yrs old (not exagerating!) was literally in tears. She said she had so many stories to tell but that the english words didn't truly "tell" the story. She also indicated that she had so many memories and her memories were in that language but she had no one to share them with. The inability to communicate in her native language was contributing to her sense of loneliness---a pressing enough issue with the elderly.

Of course, my thoughts jumped immediately to Irish. I thought, is this the future for Gaeilge? Will there, one day, be a piece about some old fisherman on Inis Meán, or an elderly woman weaving sweaters on Inis Mór?

This lady's most telling statement was that she wished she had spoken to her children in her (and thier) native language. She said that way she would know a part of her people would live beyond her.

Very moving piece, indeed.

Le meas,

James

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James (63.183.137.120 - 63.183.137.120)
Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 12:08 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

One additional note that isn't said often enough--You people are the only thing standing between the survival and extinction of the Irish language.

I'm just an American guy who was fortunate enought to be born of Irish ancestry. You people are my link to that. Without your efforts, and I realize that they are truely efforts in every sense of the word, I wouldn't even know that an Irish language existed.

In case no one has said it before---Thank you for all you are doing, thank you for the support you show to the linguistic flailings of neophytes like myself, and thank you for keeping a part of my heritage alive and well.

Le meas,

James

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Bradford (66.231.2.99 - 66.231.2.99)
Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 01:37 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A chairde,

Tír gan Teanga Tír gan Anam... The logo of this website says it all.

I just wanted to echo what James said as my circumstance appears to be quite similar to his. Thank you, go raibh maith agat, to all the Gaeilge speakers, native and non-native alike, that make this site what it is. My sincere hope is that through all of our efforts the Irish language will not only survive, but thrive. I await the day when Gaeilge retakes the nation! :-)

Le meas,

Bradford

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (193.1.100.103 - 193.1.100.103)
Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 04:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Chairde Liom,

Tá mé den tuairim go scaoilfidh mé le dalladh Béarla anseo mar go mbaineann an t-ábhar go dlúth le saol Bhéarla na nGael.

What you are hitting at, a chairde, is very important. You're discussing attitude. This has to be the most important aspect of language aquisition.

One moment that stays with me is Sandy Hoffmann and Bruce Barr, Conradh na Gaeilge, Milwaukee, bringing me into their class of youngsters at UWM summer of 2yrs. ago to listen to their pupils, new to Irish, performing an agallamh beirte (dual discussion) after less than a week of learning basic Irish. They were so good and were enjoying themselves at the rehearsed agallamh.

When they finished, I actually couldn't say too much for a while as I would have just been overcome with emotion. Little did their grt.grandparents ever imagine the scene that I was be witnessing. (I have about seven letters from some of our own folks who sailed over in the late 1800s and never returned.) Sandy and her helpers were engaged for a few moments and I had the chance to hold composure and form a few words that could express in some way how deeply I felt.
Ní dhéanfaidh mé dearmad den eachtra áirithe sin a fhad a mhairfeas mé.

Measaim go bhfuil daoine ag teacht ar thuiscint saibhreas a dteangacha ar fud an domhain. Is moille a bheas sé i dtíortha, nó i bpobail na sprioctheangacha ná mar a bheas sé thar lear.
- I feel that people worldwide are becoming more aware of the wealth of their languages. The speed of awareness may be slower in the target-language countries/territories themselves than it is overseas.

Is tábhachtach mar sin, tionchar na dtíortha thar lear, Meiriceá, Sasana srl. ar phobal na hÉireann féin, lena a spreagadh chun a dteanga féin a athmheas.
The influence of overseas countries is important for the language attitude of the Irish people vis-a-vis their revaluating their own language.

Tá an-chaint tosaithe sa Ghaeltacht féin le tuairim is mí anuas ar an gcaoi a bhfuiltear ag caitheamh leis an teanga le dhá ghlúin anuas.
A great discussion has started in the Gaeltacht within the last month or so, about how the language has been treated for the last two generations.

Is mór an gar an méid sin. Táthar ag smaoineamh, ag caint agus beartófar ar chúrsa ciallmhar éigin faoi dheireadh.
This is very good. People are thinking, talking and shall take action in some sensible way eventually.

Braithim féin go bhfuil dearcadh mhuintir na hÉireann, idir Ghaeltacht is Ghalltacht (English speaking Ireland), ag feabhsú le tuairim is 10 - 15 bliain anuas. Bhí an iliomad tionchar ar feidhmiú le linn an achair sin leis an scéal a chur níos mó ar a súile dóibh.
I feel myself that the Irish peoples' view, both in the Gaeltacht and outside, has improved over the last 10 - 15 yrs. There were very many reasons operating during that time to bring the matter more clearly home to them.

Measaim go gcaithfidh an Ghaeilge a theacht chun tosaigh sách láidir áit éigin sa Ghalltacht len í a chomharthú slán sa Ghaeltacht.
I feel that Irish must make serious progress somewhere in English speaking Ireland so as signal its survivability in the Gaeltacht.

Mura dtosaí cúpla áit Ghalltachta eile seachas Béal Feirste ag labhairt na Gaeilge, leáfaidh an chuid is mó de phobal na Gaeltachta ina mBéarlóirí aon teanga amháin ar nós an mhóraimh náisiúnta.
If a couple of other places in the Galltacht don't start speaking Irish, most of the Gaeltacht people shall melt into speaking English-only like the national majority.

Caithfimid casadh láidir na taoide a fheiceáil go luath.

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Eoin an Ógánach (194.125.133.245 - 194.125.133.245)
Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 04:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat, a Oliver! I love Irish so much and yet when it comes down to basic grammer like that I'm a bit lacking. I think I'll use my being in Junior Cert as an excuse. That and I was up late typing that...!

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Emma Kerrigan (195.93.34.13 - 195.93.34.13)
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 04:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

i need to know what a word means and i don't know how to spell it but it sounds like "mabelic" someone please help because i don't have a clue as i don't speak any irish but i want to learn.

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Maidhc Ó G. (65.129.68.6 - 65.129.68.6)
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 06:25 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Oooh, that's a tough one, Emma. Is it surrounded by other words? Did someone use it in a phrase? And we can't tell if the vowels therein are long or short. Could you give us a little more to go on, please?
-Maidhc.

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David (217.132.110.34 - 217.132.110.34)
Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 10:05 am:   Edit Post Print Post

There is something in trying to find new words:

I'm Israeli and from our own experience in reviving our ancient language, we HAD to invent words, in such extent one can actually say that modern Hebrew is an invented language!

We of course use foreign words from Latin, English, French, Yiddish and Arabic sources, but we do try to stay connected to Semite languages.

My suggestion to you is that if you try to invent new words, do it from other Celtic languages, like Welsh and Scottish-Gaelic (provided they found a parallel word). This way you'll stay with your celtic heritage.

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James Murphy (217.78.1.253 - 217.78.1.253)
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 05:53 am:   Edit Post Print Post

It has been argued that the adoption of foreign words into a langage is a natural aspect of a healthy, living language, but Irish is not a healthy language and the influx of English words into it is NOT part of its natural evolution but part of its degeneration in the face of the ever-increasing progress of English. Irish is being polluted.
Frequently, especially today, it is necessary to find a term to express a new concept or invention in a language. In Irish it shold rarely be necessary to adopt a loan-word from another language as Irish is a rich, versatile classical European language, in my opinion (for what it's worth) the equal of Latin or Greek. Part of the usefulness of Latin and Greek in expressing complex concepts is the ease in which compound words can be formed owing to the abundance of prefixes etc. in them. Irish is similar in this respect eg. "Dobhair-" ("Hydro-", "Aqua-"), "Cian-" (basically the same as the Greek "Tele-" indicating distance), "Sior-" ("perpetual") etc.
If it ever is found to be necessary to adopt a loan word then I think English is the last place we should look. If it's Latin, Greek, French or German in origin for example then we should take our loan-word directly from the source instead of taking it second-hand from the "vulgar tongue". Of course (as David mentions above) if a word corresponding to what we are looking for is to be found in Old Irish or any of the other Celtic languages then that's what should be used.
I'll finish

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James Murphy (217.78.1.54 - 217.78.1.54)
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 06:11 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Not all of what I wrote appeared above.
I finished with a few examples of the monstrosities tha pollute our language today eg. "bricfeasta", "jab", "jacai", "hidreafoibe" - hydrophobia, "zu" and of course "heileacaptar".

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BD (193.122.47.178 - 193.122.47.178)
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 10:07 am:   Edit Post Print Post

English is the most polluted language of all. The basic Germanic foundation is permeated with Latinic words from the Norman conquest.
Later, when scientists needed to invent new words for technology they used Greek words e.g. tech nology.

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An Mídheach Mealltach (213.202.161.131 - 213.202.161.131)
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 02:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

What would you all recommend as a "pure" Irish version of helicopter?

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BD (193.122.47.170 - 193.122.47.170)
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 03:51 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Caseitleán

Turning-flyer ???????

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Phil (159.134.209.3 - 159.134.209.3)
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 04:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I myself have no problem with introducing a new word into a language, eg. Gaeilge. What's disgraceful is the way they change it just a little to "heileacaptar". It just wrecks my head; It's as if they're trying to say that this is a different word to the one that's in the other language.
I wouldn't have any problem with the word "helicopter", as it is a unique object, a new invention, it needs to be given a new name. By far the most disgraceful use of Gaeilge I've seen was on Ros na Rún there about a month ago.

"Cad a bheidh ar siúl agat anocht?"

"Beidh mé ag babysiteáil"

baby = báb
sit = suigh

Beidh mé ag bábsuí.

WOW that was HARD.


-Phil

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Aonghus (159.134.63.76 - 159.134.63.76)
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 04:42 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

An alternative word for helicopter is ingéarán

But it is not safe to assume that because a word appears the same in English that the Irish word is a loan from english.

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An Mídheach Mealltach (213.202.161.37 - 213.202.161.37)
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 07:16 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

baby = báb
sit = suigh

Beidh mé ag bábsuí.


Well actually, that translation YOU gave is a bit of anglicisation itself Phil, in that you translated from English word for word which doesn't necessarily work.
"Feighlí linbh" is a baby sitter and "feighlíocht linbh" would be babysitting.
Also you have to understand that that type of language is used by native speakers, because of the bi-lingual nature of their upbringing. Even if they have Irish as their first language at home they would have been raised bi-lingually by the dominant English languge culture/ media etc around them. That is actually the way they speak quite often! The language is a natural method of communication to them, they don't feel a need to speak something "pure", they want to communicate! I know native speakers personally and they do that and I'm not going to get up on a pedantic high-horse and tell a native speaker that what they're saying is wrong! I'm a learner for God's sake! One example from a young friend of mine from college:
"Bhí mise just besotted leis."
What amazes me is that they still actually speak Irish at all, with English being so utterly powerful these days and Irish government commitment to preservation and revival being so much about lip-service and hypocrisy than anything else.
They would be less likely to intermingle Irish and English like this, if the Irish language infrastructure, socially, politically and economically was stronger, but the fact is they do, but they still speak Irish as a living language and I think we should be glad that they still do, rather than being so pedantic about perfection and purity.
Is fearr Gaeilge bhriste ná Béarla cliste.
And personally, I would like to see a purer non-anglicised version of Irish survive and flourish, but if I was given an ultimatum of a choice between the death of "pure" Irish and the survival of an Anglo-Gaelic hybrid I would without a second thought take the later. No living thing stands still.
I, for the record am a fluent(I like to think!) learner male who is 21 years of age and is studying Irish as a degree subject.

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James Murphy (217.78.1.97 - 217.78.1.97)
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 09:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

An Midheach Mealltach -
In your message you wrote "they don't feel a need to speak something "pure", they want to communicate". Exactly, they want to communicate their thoughts as clearly as they can, but having been swamped by English throughout their lives, especially in their educations, in the media and entertainment and in everyday contact with English speakers, they find themselves unable to do so in their own language. The current situation has damaged the qualityof their Irish at the same time as it has distanced people from English-speaking Ireland from Irish.
I agree with Phil about "Ros na Run". I get a bit pissed-off watching it sometimes. Every sentence they speak seems to have at least a "yeah", "no", "like", "just" or something like that in it (not forgetting of course "for fluke's sake"!). That is, apparently, how most people speak in the Gaeltachts today but that doesn't mean it's natural or right.

Regarding "heileacaptar". Helicopter comes from two Greek words - "helicos" (genitive of helix ) meaning "spiral" and "pteros" meaning "wing". "Bis-eitlean" (bi/s = spiral or helix) would be my humble suggestion.

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An Mídheach Mealltach (213.202.160.165 - 213.202.160.165)
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 05:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Also you have to remeber that many of the words which you may think are English derivatives are not. very often both Irish and English borrowed a word from another language and many people assume that when the words are similar, that Irish borrowed from English.

For example:

Dáinséar - Danger (Both borrowed from Norman-French)
Pálás - Palace (Ditto)
Séipéal - Chapel (Ditto)
Contae - County (Ditto)

Scilling - Schilling (Both borrowed from Norse)
Margadh - market (Ditto)
Seol - Sail (Ditto)
Iarla - Earl (Ditto)

Mainistir - monastery (Both from Latin)
Onóir- Honour (Ditto)
Uair - Hour (Ditto)
Ceist - Question (Ditto)
Glóir - Glory (Ditto)
Intleacht - Intellect (Ditto)

As regards this:
"That is, apparently, how most people speak in the Gaeltachts today but that doesn't mean it's natural or right."

You go to the Gaeltacht and tell them that and see how they react.

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James Murphy (217.78.1.35 - 217.78.1.35)
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 05:09 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I am not criticising people in the Gaeltacht who speak this way. In this time with the dominance of English everywhere in life it's hardly surprising that Irish speakers often find themselves out of necessity and habit falling back on English. I criticise the situation in this country which has led to this. The supremecy of English has not only damaged Irish in terms of the number of English speakers compared to Irish speakers but it is also having a detremental effect on the quality and purity of living, spoken Irish. The struggle to promote and restore Irish, and to protect it from pollution from English are the same.

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Sean Nasc (193.122.47.162 - 193.122.47.162)
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

i see in the paper that in Swahili, the word for a trafic roundabout is a "keepie leftie"

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Maidhc Ó G. (65.128.200.218 - 65.128.200.218)
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 04:15 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I seem to recall that in the early days of manned space flight, since they hadn't yet come up with a word of their own for the water based landing, the French also used -"Les Splashdown".
-Maidhc.

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Antóin (159.134.181.1 - 159.134.181.1)
Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 12:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

And what about the poor Spaniards, they are not even aware of how corrupt a language they speak. When I suggest to my Spanish friends that "futbal" should really be "pelota de pie" they take umbrage. They also have an expression "ojalá!", which though seemingly a very pious term: "God willing / Buíochas le Dia" is actually a corruption from infidal Arabic.

I myself try to use the Queen's English in as unadulterated a style as possible. However I find "mixed titbits" for chop suey a bit of a mouthful, if you'll pardon the pun. And when I say "bag's bottom" for cul de sac, well, people look at me strangely, one smart alec called me anally retentive.

Anois an bhfuil leagan glan Bhéarla ag éinne ar Karaoke, Kung Fu, Sauerkraut, Kama Sutra &rl, &rl, &rl? -:)

Antóin

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Phil (159.134.209.113 - 159.134.209.113)
Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 06:52 am:   Edit Post Print Post

We don't claim that "cul de sac", "Karaoke", "Kung Fu", "Sauerkraut", "Karate", "Yoga", "Chi" are english words AT ALL.

These are things that definitely originated somewhere else and they have a distinguished well known name. So we use that name. As for the Queen's English, it would take her half an hour to say what I would in 5 mins. The height of ignorance and stupidity is purposely using long words instead of better shorter words; for example "sombre", "benign". The Queen's a retard anyway. "Splendid".

And if I heard someone say "bag's bottom", I would immediately assume that there's some motive behind that, perhaps to try to appear posh and superiour. Just my opinion.

"Anally Retentive" is a pretty good label for it.


-Phil

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