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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (January-March) » Brendan: the original spelling and pronounciation « Previous Next »

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Br James (eli-208.186.190.96.dslextreme.com - 208.186.190.96)
Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 02:39 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Can someone tell me what the original spelling of Brendan (i.e. St Brendan the Navigator) and phonetic pronounciation would be? I am assuming that 'Brendan' is an Anglicised form of the Irish name. Brendan the Navigator was born in Ireland before the Scots settled, so it makes sense that 'Brendan' would be an original name of Irish origin.

Le meas,
Séamas

Éire, mo grá.

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alec1 (m14-mp1.cvx1-b.dub.dial.ntli.net - 62.254.104.14)
Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 10:08 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The Irish name has only one minor change from the English version and that is a 'fada' on the 'a'

Brendán pronounced
Bren-dawn

The original Saint seems like quite a guy!

http://www.ics.villanova.edu/in_saint_brendan.htm

I'm not so sure what you mean by 'before the Scots settled'
I don't think there was any significant Scottish settlement here(Ireland)-more the other way round maybe.

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Tomas OCathain (pc-62-31-117-97-ud.blueyonder.co.uk - 62.31.117.97)
Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 01:00 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hmmm...yes that comment about the Scots is confusing. It was the Irish of North-East Ireland (ie. The Dal Riada, Airghialla,etc) who colonised Alba and who eventually gave it the name Scotland (The name "Scotia" originally reffered to Ireland not Scotland. The only thing I can think of is the Ulster Plantation, where Protestant Scots where settled on the confiscated lands of the native Irish Catholics. If so then this happened many centuries after Brendan's time

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James (209.48.182.219)
Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 01:30 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

And for my two cents worth:

Those original "Irish" colonizers were called the Scotti, hence the english term Scotland for the land known as Alba in Irish which is where the Albannach live!!

Ain't history fun!!

Le meas,

James

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Br James (eli-208.186.190.241.dslextreme.com - 208.186.190.241)
Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 01:33 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Forgive me, the Ulster Plantation is what I was referring to. Didn't mean to confuse anyone. I'm still learning about the history of Ireland.

But thanks for your help!

Séamas

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Tomas OCathain (pc-62-31-117-97-ud.blueyonder.co.uk - 62.31.117.97)
Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 02:54 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

James, thanks for reminding me. I forgot to add that. "Scotti" was a term applied to those various Irish clans and the term (unless I'm mistaken) means "raider" or "plunderer" and reffered to those Irish who raided Britain in those times. In fact, pehaps the most famous Scotti was my eponymous ancestor - Niall Noigiallach (Niall of the Nine Hostages) and it was during one of his raids on Britain that a young Romano-Briton was captured and taken back to Ireland to tend sheep as a slave. The boy later became better known as Patricius or St Patrick

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James (209.48.182.219)
Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 04:49 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The other interesting point, (I can't recall specifics, so bear with me) is that Brian Boru had a bit of a problem in is efforts to unify the tribes of Ireland. As a result the northern counties were "ceded" for lack of a better term to a sort of "sub-ruler" (name I can't recall). This is the first reference I can find to the partition of Ireland. If my memory serves me, it was those northern inhabitants that migrated to Scotland and their ancestors who, under the Plantation efforts, eventually migrated back.

Le meas,

James

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Tomas OCathain (pc-62-31-117-97-ud.blueyonder.co.uk - 62.31.117.97)
Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 05:50 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

It is true that Brian, having secured his own province of Munster as well as Leinster and Connaught didn't really subdue the tribes of Ulster.
Brian engaged in a number of campaigns to bring the kingdoms of Cenel nEogain (from which my family is descended), Cenel Conail and Ulaid into line. Despite paying tribute to Brian the nothern rulers retained a large amount of independence.

However the division of Ireland into "North" and South" allegedly goes back much further than Brian Boru.
"Leth Cuinn" and "Leth Moga" are names for the two halves of Ireland, the dividing line running from Dublin to Galway bay.The names represent the political hegemony of the Ui Neill in Leth Cuinn (Conn's half) in the north, and the Eoganacht (Leth Moga - Mug Nuadat's half). This division is supposed to have happened in pre-history during the Milesian invasion.

As it was it was not the inhabitants of the entire north but only members of a few kingdoms in the North East of Ireland who sent colonists to Scotland. For a while these Irish colonists (or Scots) fought with the native Picts.
The names of these flegling Scots colonies reflect their Irish origins, Dalrida - Dal Riada, Argyll - Airghialla,etc.
Eventually the Irish colonists became the dominant people and over time became independant from their ties to their Irish lords. Several centuries later, Scotland was by and large converted during the Reformation while Ireland maintained it's Catholicism. Desiring to impose it's laws and new religion on Ireland, England sent many Scots to colonize what was already a thriving civilzation. This being called the "Plantations".
The idea being that the shared bond of Protestantism between the Scots and English would be stronger than any racial or cultural ties between the Scots and their Irish kinsman.
As you can see from the troubles in Nothern Ireland today, they were correct in this assumption.

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Marcia (208.61.30.163 - 208.61.30.163)
Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 05:16 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Dia dhuit!

Regarding the 'Brendan' name, I have seen it often spelled as 'Breandan' and also, although very rarely as, 'Brendann'. Maybe it's a combination of both of those. :) Yes, Brendan is the Anglicized version.

Buiochas! This is a beautiful site and a great source of information.

Beannácht,

Márcia

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Lúcas Ó Catháin (68.39.82.247 - 68.39.82.247)
Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 10:40 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

James,

I have seen it spelt 'Breandán' in Irish to preserve the "caol le caol is leathan le leathan" rule. I had a teacher at a Daltai weekend from Tralee, named Breandán, and I have a teacher from Gweedore, who has a student named 'Breandán,' and both pronounce it like

'brah-nawn'

where the the internal 'nd' of 'Breandán' is treated like eclipsis so the 'd' is not pronounced.

Lúcas

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Lúcas Ó Catháin (68.39.82.247 - 68.39.82.247)
Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 10:45 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

James,

I almost forgot. The teacher from Tralee put the emphasis on the second syllable while the teacher from Gweedore put it on the first.

Lúcas

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