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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (January-June) » A couple of questions! « Previous Next »

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MacNab (adsl-154-3-43.asm.bellsouth.net - 68.154.3.43)
Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 01:19 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Hello!
I would like to know if someone can explain the differences
between ancient and modern Irish. Can the ancient be read and understood by modern speakers? Or is it distinct in the
same way that, for instance, modern English differs from Old
English(i.e., Beowulf)? Having read Beowulf, I can say that
there is little of this "English" that I can understand.
The second part of my question is a translation request.
In the Immacallam in da Thuarad (Colloquy of the Two Sages)
there is recorded a verbal duel between two poets, the young
junior poet Nede and the Ollave of Emain Macha, Ferchertne.
The 8th stanza of their exchange (as translated by Caitlin
and John Matthews in the Encyclopedia of Celtic Wisdom) reads:
"And you, O my elder, what art do you practice?"
Ferchertne answered:
"Hunting for the treasure of knowledge,
Establishing peace
Arranging words in ranks...
A share of wisdom from the stream of science,
Fury of inspiration..."
I give this example to put "Fury of Inspiration" into context, because I would like to have this phrase translated into Irish, both archaic (if possible) and modern, with a
phonetic rendering of both.

With many thanks,
MacNab

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Shay (159.134.136.208 - 159.134.136.208)
Posted on Sunday, April 06, 2003 - 07:50 am:   Edit Post Print Post

old irish (an tSean-ghaeilge) stretches from the 6th to the 9th century whereas modern irish (an Nua-Ghaeilge) is from the 17th century onwards.(there is also the middle and classical period), most fluent Irish speakers would understand the old irish although there is some tricky words.

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Aonghus (193.120.237.66 - 193.120.237.66)
Posted on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 04:13 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I'd have to disagee.
Old Irish would be as difficult for me to read as Anglo Saxon would for you!

Fury of Inspiration sound like a poetic stock phrase, I'll try and dig it out of the books I have.

I'd say fury here is best translated by racht

Racht inspioráide

would be modern Irish. However inspioráid is a loan word from Latin. I know there is a native word, which is eluding me. I'll look it up.

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Maidhc (65.128.204.28 - 65.128.204.28)
Posted on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 10:34 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Spreagadh?

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Phil (159.134.209.1 - 159.134.209.1)
Posted on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 01:25 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I don't know about the verbal aspect of the language, but regarding the written language, they're like chalk and cheese.

-Phil

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Aonghus (193.120.237.66 - 193.120.237.66)
Posted on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 04:06 am:   Edit Post Print Post

The word I was looking for was Tinfeadh

Racht tinfidh

I have a modern Irish version of Rosc Amerghin, which is supposed to be the first poem uttered on the island of Ireland in Irish, and it contains the line

Mise a adhnas tinfeadh cinn
I will spark head inspiration

I wasn't able to find an old Irish source for Immacallam in da Thuarad; I suggest signing up for the OLD-IRISH-L mailing list, somebody there is sure to know.

You subscribe by sending a message to
LISTSERV@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE

with SUBSCRIBE OLD-IRISH-L your name in the body of the message.

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