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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2002 (July-December) » Nobility and stuff « Previous Next »

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Ailís ó hAllmhúráin (213-99-240-151.uc.nombres.ttd.es - 213.99.240.151)
Posted on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 02:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia daoibh, a chairde!


Can some kind soul translate these words into Irish for me?

House (a noble house, not where people live :P )
Lineage

King - Queen
Prince - Princess
Count - Countess
Duke - Duchess
Baron - Baroness
Lord - Lady
Sir - Dame

Could someone tell me also the proper way to refer to a king/duke/etc in Irish (you know, Majesty... all that stuff)? How would I say, for example, His Majesty King Michael?

If I want to say Lady Alice from (belonging to) House Eiluned, how should I write it? And if I want to put also the surname, where should I put it (i.e. Lady Alice Halloran from House Eiluned)?

(yeah, I know, I have some complex requests...)


Go raibh maith agat,
Ailís and her random fancyful stuff =^-^=

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James (wcs3.norfolk.nipr.mil - 198.26.132.99)
Posted on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 03:42 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

King = Rí
Queen = Ríon
Prince = prionsa (another, presumably older word - flaith)
Princess = banphrionsa (from Bean = woman + prionsa but lenited because of the feminine adjective)
Count = cunta
Countess = cuntaois

From Duke/Duchess on down I can't offer much help. It's important to understand that with the exception of King/Queen and Prince, the titles you are asking for are not Irish titles. These are english terms that were adapted into the Irish language by necessity. The conceptual equivalent might be out there somewhere but I'm not versed well enough in ancient Irish social structure to even begin to tackle it. King and Queen and the older term for Prince did exist, conceptually. You will notice that all the other terms are essentially Irish words that reflect the english phonetic pronunciation, again, with King, Queen and Prince (flaith) the exceptions.

Also, utilization of a surname in Irish, especially for females can be tricky. I believe you would use Ni hAllmhúráin or possibly Ui hAllmhúráin. I don't have my reference on surname usage with me and I just can't seem to recall the rule.

Regarding formal terms of address, I would not begin to venture an attempt. I'm still struggling with ainm domsa versus ainm dom versus orm versus mise....you'll have to get another, more sesoned person to bite on that one. I would suspect, however, like your other words, that this is an english custom that has no true Irish equivalent from a socio-ethnic approach.

Le meas,

James

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James (wcs1.norfolk.nipr.mil - 198.26.132.101)
Posted on Friday, August 23, 2002 - 09:49 am:   Edit Post Print Post

OK, new day and a fresher mind, not to mention a quick review of some texts. According to Teach Yourself Irish (the Ó Sé and Sheils version) Ní applies to the maiden name and Uí (for Ó) and Mhic (for Mac) apply to the married name. So.....

If you are married use Uí hAllmhúráin

If this is your maiden name use Ní hAllmhúráin

But, lest this be too easy I'll throw a slight curve into the pitch. Formally, if this is your married name, you could expect to be addressed as

Ailís Bean Uí hAllmhúráin (Literally, Alice Wife of O'Halloran). Bean Uí hAllmhúráin if it stands alone would equate to Mrs. O'Halloran.

Hope this helps.

Le meas,

James (tosaitheoir)

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Ailís Ní hAllmhúráin (213-98-215-175.uc.nombres.ttd.es - 213.98.215.175)
Posted on Friday, August 23, 2002 - 01:04 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia duit, a chara!


Hummm, very interesting info. It's always quite tricky to understand the naming patterns. I saw somewhere a page about it and I recall that female surnames were always lenited or something.

Anyway, all that nobility stuff is just curiosity :D


Go raibh maith agat,
Ailís Ní hAllmhúráin

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