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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2002 (July-December) » Looking for more expressions using opposite words like "Éist do bhéal" « Previous Next »

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Mare (u212-239-170-247.adsl.pi.be - 212.239.170.247)
Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 04:26 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I think that the expression "éist do bhéal" meaning "shut up", literally means "listen to your own mouth" and find it a very nice way to get opposite images combined to form an expression. Are there any other expressions that are like this one?
And please correct me if I got it scaiphte up again ...

Le meas,
Mare.

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Seosamh Mac Bhloscaidh (dsc01.nyf-ny-3-10.rasserver.net - 207.93.59.10)
Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 11:36 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

There's the odd expression that is meant ironically. I could only think of one. That's "A chonách sin ort". Literally: It's prosperity on you. Less literally, "More luck to you!" Ironically -- and most commonly -- it means "It serves you right!"

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Mare (u212-239-205-104.adsl.pi.be - 212.239.205.104)
Posted on Friday, August 09, 2002 - 05:58 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat, a Sheosamh ! I found another one : "bodhrán" meaning both "drum" and "deaf person" .. cause and consequence ? And "tá mo chos bodhar" meaning "my foot is numb" (deaf)" really got me thinking about language differences, because a tingling foot in english is numb, in irish deaf, in spanish dead and in dutch asleep :-)

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James (spider-tp014.proxy.aol.com - 152.163.204.179)
Posted on Friday, August 09, 2002 - 09:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Mhaire,

If you heard my bodhran playing you would better understand why it has a dual meaning! Or, perhaps the action of one stimulates a desire for the other!

(Sorry about the missed fada--my computer at home will not cut and paste from this site--can't figure it out)

Le meas,

James

P.S. Sorry if I've screwed up the vocative of your name. Still trying that aspect of grammar on for size.

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Mare (u212-239-183-46.adsl.pi.be - 212.239.183.46)
Posted on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 05:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I found a superb one in an Altan song!
"Is fada liom uaim i" literally translates to : "she's long to me from me" or "I long for her from me" and really means "I miss her"

The song is good and has some other mindbenders in it. Title: Molly Na gCuach Ní Chuilleanain

OK, mé éistfaidh mo bhéal anois :-)
Le meas, Mare

PS James, I think it's "a Mhare "

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Máre (u212-239-183-46.adsl.pi.be - 212.239.183.46)
Posted on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 05:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

PS2 maybe I should use a fada on my name.
Máre

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Larry (host213-122-28-79.in-addr.btopenworld.com - 213.122.28.79)
Posted on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 03:27 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Chairde,

The use of the vocative with first names...

In general, and I stress the word "general", terms first names in Irish are lenited following the vocative particle. Take the name Séamas for example. I'm sure we all know that Séamas is the Irish equivalent of James. If you're addressing somebody with that name, you would prefix it with the vocative particle "a" only when you're using the Irish version of the name - you would use "A Shéamais" but not "A James".

The vocative paricle causes lenition (adding the "h") and you'd make the final consonant slender by adding the "i".

BUT....

Let's now look at a female name, Siobhán (Susan). The vocative of Siobhán is "A Shiobhán" - the final consonant is left broad. Laoiseach (Lucy) is another example (A Laoiseach).

What this boils down to, and I apologise if I've fudged the issue and made matters worse, is that you would use "James, a chara" and "Mare, a chara" as you're both using the non-Irish versions of your names.

Le meas,
Larry.

P.S. Mare, there's a lovely version of that song by Maighread Ní Dhomhnaill...

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Seosamh (1cust50.tnt13.nyc9.da.uu.net - 67.192.236.50)
Posted on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 11:27 am:   Edit Post Print Post

There's lots of wiggle room here. I don't have a problem with "Mare, a chara" but it is more correct to use the vocative particle (and lenition). Under stress from English, both are being used less and less, even with names in Irish. (One native speaker -- who teaches the language as well -- always addresses e-mails to me as "Seosamh", never "a Sheosaimh".)

On one of the Irish-language lists, a native speaker from Conamara who is a scholar of the language explained the current use of 'a" and the vocative with NON-Irish names, at least in his dialect. I can't remember all the letters but he did say that they don't bother leniting "d" or "t", but do so with "m". I noticed that a native speaker here from Donegal normally lenites "m" in direct address: "a Mhelissa" he says. So, "a Mhare, a chara" is fine by me, especially since it is so close to "a Mháire". Remember "a Mhary" from the Clannad song "Pós an Píobaire"?

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