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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2002 (July-December) » Sébhiú « Previous Next »

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Pól (p353.as1.exs.dublin.eircom.net - 159.134.225.97)
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 11:42 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Do any of yous know how this would have been written before they got rid of the sébhiú and replaced it with a 'h':

Cé hé?

Séamas Ó hUaine

Does anyone use the sébhiú at all anymore? I've just done my Juniour Cert and I've heard nothing at all about it in school. The only place I've ever seen it is one of those pictures of Irish sayings that they have on the walls of Irish pubs in Spain.

Thanks

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Aonghus (vpn.parthus.com - 62.221.5.1)
Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 04:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Cé hé?
Séamas Ó hUaine

Wouldn't change. Neither of those hs is a seimhiú

The seimhiú you are referring to (a dot over the consonant) was a way of saving parchment where people writing used to write the H above the letter until it eventually degenerated in to a dot. Similar to the umlaut in Germany where an extra e after a vowel became two dots over it.

With Industrial printing it became more convienient to use Latin letters, rather than having special fonts for Irish, and H reappeared in writing. After about 1960 hardly anyone used a different Irish Font. With computers it may have some kind of renaissance for aethesitic reasons - you can get true type fonts for Windows at http://www.fainne.org/gaelchlo/

This also includes a special font for the various other shortcuts manuscript writers used.

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Antaine (pool-141-153-215-182.mad.east.verizon.net - 141.153.215.182)
Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 07:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

or, if you have a mac, the Yamada Language Center's website has a really nice Irish font called Gaeilge, listed under "Gaelic"

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Fintan (neta.lisp.com.au - 203.21.133.124)
Posted on Tuesday, July 09, 2002 - 11:16 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Maybe I'm just a pedant, but isn't 'séimhiú' the mutative process, and 'buailte(?) the name for the lenition marker itself? And yes, the selection of fonts available from http://www.fainne.org/gaelchlo/ are QUITE beautiful, particularly the 'Bunchló na Nod'. It contains special characters which are abbreviations of commonly occurring vowel-and-or-consonant combinations.

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Seosamh Mac Bhloscaidh (dialup-64.158.190.201.dial1.newyork1.level3.net - 64.158.190.201)
Posted on Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 10:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

If you're feeling pedantic about séimhiú here is how Ó Siadhail first introduces it in _Modern Irish_ (p.111):

In the process of lenition plosives become continuants (the non-sonant dentals then become back sonants) and there is a loss of tension in laterals, vibrants and nasals. In the case of eclipsis ...

Well, I will spare you.

In an appendix he is a little more friendly toward his readers and says "the muation is realized in a majority of consonants as fricatization."

He also calls aspiration "an inappropriate term". An ceart aige, ar ndóigh.

I believe the fonts you mention are for noncommercial use only. Businesses should contact the owner of the site. He's had a bit of a problem with that in the past.

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James (wcs3.norfolk.nipr.mil - 198.26.132.99)
Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 11:15 am:   Edit Post Print Post

And thus my frustration with Ó Siadhail!!! I jumped out of airplanes and painted my face green for 16 years------all I know about "plosives" is that they make a hell of a racket and you don't want to be near them!

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Seosamh (dialup-67.25.45.66.dial1.newyork1.level3.net - 67.25.45.66)
Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 11:18 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Go díreach. Exactly. Ó S.'s world is not a place where you want to stay too long.

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Seosamh (dialup-67.25.45.66.dial1.newyork1.level3.net - 67.25.45.66)
Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 11:23 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Jumping out of airplanes, by the way, swept through the Daltaí crowd over the past year. Dream is dual duit, mar sin. One member was injured parachuting in Belgium -- Gortaíodh é ag paraisiútáil sa Bheilg ar na mallaibh. Fáilte romhat go Daltaí.

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James Murphy (217.78.0.3)
Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Fintan As far as I know: Seimhiughadh / Seimhiu = Lenition (Mutation), Ponnc Seimhiughchain = the name of the actual dot.
You would say "buailte" (struck) or "seimhighthe" (lenited) after the lenited consonant in spelling (like "fada") eg. "a-g buailte-a-i-d buailte" - aghaidh.

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James (wcs3.norfolk.nipr.mil - 198.26.132.99)
Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 12:03 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Sheosamh,

Funny thing about gravity--it'll hurt you if you aren't careful!

Hope the injuries weren't bad enough to dissuade the interest. I've only got a few hundred jumps, but fortunately, no injuries, yet.

I'm planning on the September beginner's weekend. I'll have to brush up on my aviation related vocabulary!! (Altimeter, airplane, reserve, ripcord etc.)

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Erin Conway (dialup-166.90.20.123.dial1.sandiego1.level3.net - 166.90.20.123)
Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 04:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

James,

Beginner's weekend?! It won't be too long before you are teaching these courses! Something you said in a post a few days ago (ie: having the courage to make mistakes) actually gave me the boost to begin making arrangements to sign up for the September weekend course in S.F. I'm scared to death; figure that's one good reason why I should do it. Anyway, thanks. Look forward to hearing how your Sept. weekend goes.

Erin

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Seosamh Mac Bhloscaidh (dialup-64.152.32.2.dial1.newyork1.level3.net - 64.152.32.2)
Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 10:42 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Don't be scared. These things are lots of fun although the S.F. one may be a little too professional for some of our tastes.

James can do a parachuting workshop in Esopus. Room for a drop, even. Má's mall is mithid. Eitleán ag duine ar bith?

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Erin Conway (dialup-64.154.154.161.dial1.sandiego1.level3.net - 64.154.154.161)
Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 11:52 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Seosamh,

Thanks for the encouragement.

What makes the S.F. weekend different from the others? What do you mean by "professional?"

Erin

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James (wcs3.norfolk.nipr.mil - 198.26.132.99)
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 10:48 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Erin,

What you see here is only the product of idle time and a half-way decent dictionary. What you can't "hear" over this medium is my horrendous pronunciation and the "pregnant" pauses as I scour my brain (and dictionary) for the right word! Trust me, the beginner's weekend is EXACTLY where I need t be!!

Have fun in 'Frisco! Don't let the "academes" intimidate you out there. Force yourself into their midst and make them answer the call!!

Remember two things:

"A mediocre plan aggressively executed will dominate a meticulous plan poorly executed." --General George S. Patton

Is fearr gaeilge briste na bearla cliste--Irish proverb


Adh mór ort,

James

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Seosamh Mac Bhloscaidh (dialup-64.158.185.226.dial1.newyork1.level3.net - 64.158.185.226)
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 11:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Erin,

All the Irish Weekends are good. The S.F. weekend is run either by or with the help of Oideas Gael, a professional outfit that teaches adults in Ireland. Their teachers usually come out from Ireland and are very good. They are not intimidating at all -- they use modern techniques geared to adults that are effective as well as entertaining.

Daltaí weekends follow a tried and true format that is also effective and entertaining -- just not in exactly the same way.

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Erin Conway (dialup-64.156.205.53.dial1.sandiego1.level3.net - 64.156.205.53)
Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 12:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

James,

Love the quotes. I really appreciate all your feedback. Thanks. Keeping my chin up in anticipation of a great weekend! Good luck to you, too!


Seosamh,

An objective response; I'll take your word on it. I've actually perused the Oideas Gael website and feel confident with their service. Still my imagination runs wild, and I imagine all kinds of East Coast fun taking place during the weekends there! haha. Perhaps next year.


Goodness to you both, Erin

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