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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2002 (January-June) » Translation for Pets' Name « Previous Next »

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Thomas ODonnell (ny-kenton1a-504.buf.adelphia.net - 24.49.85.248)
Posted on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 07:01 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Hello, We have just adopted a Kerry Blue Terrier and I wanted to give her a unique name. I was looking at your website and saw an Irish quote concerning "A terrier is brave in it's own home". I would like to call her "O'Toole's Bold Terrier" , Is this the correct form for a Gaeilge translation?
"O'Toole's Teann Madra Gearr"
thank you,
Tom

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James (wcs3.norfolk.nipr.mil - 198.26.132.99)
Posted on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 11:10 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Tom,

Word for word traslations are not always as easy as they might seem and I am very new to the language but, I'll give it a whirl. I'm responding as much to answer my own questions as I am to answer yours! There are PLENTY of native speakers, non-native yet fluent speakers, and some other downright accomplished students on this site. Give us a few days and we (most likely, they)will get you on the right track.


I am assuming Madra Gearr to be "terrier" as Madra = dog. Adjectives tend to follow the nouns that they modify in Irish as opposed to the other way around in english.
Also, the utilization of the apostrophe doesn't lend itself to Irish translation very well. I am going to make the assumption that you want to keep "O'Toole's" intact (as Bearla==in english). If my memory serves me correctly, the AKC or perhaps the breeder requires you to keep the lineage or kennel name. Any way--here's what I've come up with.

Teann = bold in a forcefull sense

Teanntásach = bold as in audacious

Dána = bold as in daring

Dalba = bold as in naughty (probably not what you're looking for but then again, I don't know your dog!)

Were it my dog I would give favor to Madra Gearr Teann or Madra Gearr Dána. I actually prefer Madra Gear Teanntásach (Audacious Terrier) as it lends itself to the principle of warfare often quoted by Patton: "Audacity, Audacity, always Audacity" (Actually, it's usually quoted in french but I don't speak a word of it and wouldn't want to butcher it--I've probably already butchered one language as it is!!!)

Now, having chewed up all of these electrons, it dawns on my that lenition (the adding of "h") may create an issue. Your dog is female---adjectives that describe feminine nouns require lenition. Masculine nouns are not lenited. So, we (actually I) face a new dilemma--Madra means dog and is masculine, therefore Gearr does not lenite. However, Madra Gearr is taken to mean Terrier (it actually translates "short dog", literally speaking) and in this case we are talking about a feminine dog! What do we do!??

According to Ó Siadhail nouns describing males, to include animals, are masculine and nouns describing females are feminine. He does not specifically address female animals, however.

I say that to be totally grammatically correct you would go with

Madra Gearr Dhána or

Madra Gearr Theann....just add the "h" after the initial consonant of whichever option you should happen to choose.

See what I mean!! Word for word translations,---hell--translation period can be tough!! Get some more feed back before you send in your registration papers.

A Fhintan, Sheasomh agus mo chairde eile---, fóir orm!

Hope this helps more than it confuses.

Le meas,

James

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Seosamh Mac Bhloscaidh (1cust112.tnt12.nyc9.da.uu.net - 67.192.250.112)
Posted on Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 01:07 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Short answer: Madra Gearr Dána Uí Thuathail
Or: Madra Gearr Teann Uí Thuathail

Scríobh James:

>and in this case we are talking about a feminine dog! What do we do!?? <

Just call her a bitch! In this case, it's completely legitimate: soith, an tsoith, soith bheag, soith mhór. Some people spell it saith. De Bhaldraithe gives a special term for a terrier bitch: brocaire baineann. (Masculine, of course, grammatically). Brocaire is another word for terrier. From "broc", the word for badger. They were used to root out badgers, right?

Ar aon chuma, tá a rogha ag an Uasal Ó Dómhnaill. He has his choice: madra gearr or brocaire.

Here are all the terms for terriers listed in _Ainmneacha Plandaí agus Ainmhithe: Flora and Fauna Nomenclature_ :

brocaire gorm
Kerry blue terrier (Irish blue terrier)

brocaire buí
soft-coated wheaten terrier

brocaire Uí Mháil
Glen of Imaal terrier

brocaire sionnach
fox terrier

Dinneen defines madadh geárr (=madra gearr) as "a common dog, terrier, etc." He also cites one source for "madadh Gaedhealach" (madadh Gaelach in the standard language today) as "Irish terrier".

Now, about "O'Toole's Bold Terrier"

I would put it like this: Madra Gearr Dána Uí Thuathail
(Pronounced very roughly: MAH-druh GYAR DAW-nuh ee HOO-uh-hill. If you go with teann, it's pr. like "chawn".)

If the authorities of things canine balk at O'Toole being in its original Irish genitive form, use the English:

Madra Gearr Dána O'Toole

If they are completely unreasonable as bureaucrats are wont to be, grit your teeth and go with

O'Toole's Madra Gearr Dána

(I'm not saying dalba or teann is wrong. And go with brocaire if you wish. Personal choice.)

Here's your seanrá (old saying) about terriers as Dinneen has it (from Mayo):

Is teann an madadh geárr ins an áit i mbíonn a thaithighe.

"The common dog is bold in his own haunts."

That will make a nice doormat or letterhead or something, but for people learning Irish here it is in modern spelling:

Is teann an madadh gearr (in)san áit a mbíonn a thaithí.

or

Is teann madra ar a thairseach (threshhold) féin.
Is teann gach madra ag a dhoras féin.
(I'm sure I've heard this with 'dána' too :-)

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Thomas ODonnell (192.151.110.119)
Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 12:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thank you James and Seosamh, for your input on the question I posted. Your response on the subject was very helpful. I selected the name "O'Toole's Madra Gearr Dána". My interest in the language has been peaked, I will be visiting this site more often.
Thanks again.
slán agat
Tom

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James (wcs3.norfolk.nipr.mil - 198.26.132.99)
Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 12:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Then our objective has been achieved!! Another disciple is welcomed into our midst!! Careful, though. This is an incredibly addictive habit! The grammar is brutal, the phonetic combinations defy logic and there are generally two or three ways to say the same thing depending on which dialect you're studying. My suggestion--RUN THE OTHER WAY!!!!

Seriously, I hope you do take up the study of Irish. It's a wonderfully intriguing language that I am only beginning to be able to make sense of. This site will draw you in and is an incredible source of information.

Le meas,

james

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Seosamh Mac Bhloscaidh (1cust232.tnt12.nyc9.da.uu.net - 67.192.250.232)
Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 03:53 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá teangacha ann níos measa ná an Ghaeilge ó thaobh na Gaeilge de. Tá an cháil sin ar roinnt díobh i Meireacá (Theas agus Thuaidh) chomh maith le cinn i bPapua Nua-Ghuine agus san Astráil. Agus sna Caucasus. An tSean-Ghaeilge féin.

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Seosamh (1cust232.tnt12.nyc9.da.uu.net - 67.192.250.232)
Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 03:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Agus tá fáilte romhat, Thomas. You're welcome.

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Teresa (host213-122-42-114.in-addr.btopenworld.com - 213.122.42.114)
Posted on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 04:00 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Please could someone help me. My friend has recently purchased a thorough bred irish ex-race horse, his registered name is THE GAELCHARN.

Please can anyone tell me the meaning of his name.

Thanks

Teresa

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Seosamh Mac Bhloscaidh (1cust100.tnt13.nyc9.da.uu.net - 67.192.236.100)
Posted on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 08:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Easy enough. You'll find both parts of the name in any big English dictionary.

Gael means anyone of Gaelic heritage: Irish, Manx or most Scottish people.

Carn means a cairn, stones piled up to form a memorial or landmark. Building these things was an ancient practice of the Gaels. English borrowed the term from the Scots Gaelic language.

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Darren Ó Murchadha (p36.as.ennis1.eircom.net - 159.134.162.36)
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 10:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

hello all just saw this site its cool just about the word cairn, they are stones piled up but they are normally a celtic burial site or area of reverance normally a childs grave according to myth and they are everywhere still holding respect today even with constructors hope the info
is of use

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