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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2001 (July-December) » Translation for Allegheny « Previous Next »

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Br. John Kessinger COSC (63.145.134.1)
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 11:43 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Is "allegheny" a galic word,or have it's roots in a similar galic word? I live near ogham carvings in west Virginia and am trying to find the conection of native american words to Galic. Thank you for any help you can give.

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Seosamh (1cust196.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.46.54.196)
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 - 12:53 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

It's most likely an American Indian word, probably from Mingo, the Iroquoian language native to your area. There are no Ogham inscriptions in North America (and presumably outside Ireland and Britain). The carvings are either Indian (or other) ones that are authentic but just happen to be superficially like Ogham or they are bogus altogether.

There have been attempts over the years to link Celtic languages with AmerIndian ones but no serious linguists accept such claims. There is a very interesting Mingo website but I don't have the URL (a search should turn it up quickly). They look like a very friendly bunch of people and would probably be able to tell you a lot about 'Allegheny' and other placenames in your area.

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Br. John Kessinger (63.149.76.239)
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 09:06 am:   Edit Post Print Post

The ogham letters are clear with dots on lines to represent . A .. O ... U .... E ..... I I have seen them with my own eyes the lines above the line and through the line and below the line are very clear and easly translated into basque with any good dictionary. they match Ogham to the letter.
Br. John

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Seosamh (2cust2.tnt30.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.42.157.130)
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 01:16 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Basque written in Ogham letters on a rock in West Virginia? I don't doubt your eyes or veracity but, at best, it's a joke on the part of a person with some knowledge of languages.

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Br. John Kessinger (63-146-10-253.citynet.net - 63.146.10.253)
Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 09:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Here is a adress that will help explain www.catholicism.org/pages/brendan.htm

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Aonghus (vpn.parthus.com - 62.221.5.1)
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 04:13 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Unfortunately, this link claims that the ogham inscriptions date from 800 BC.
The earliest equivalents in Irealnd and Wales are from 3rd Century AD.

It is unlikely that any connection exists.

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br. John Kessinger (63-146-10-253.citynet.net - 63.146.10.253)
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 07:19 am:   Edit Post Print Post

watch the History Channel on June 25 in the evening there will be a discussion on the ogham inscriptions in the u.s.a. Some of the trees of the ogham do not grow in Ireland and were first used by the pics on the mainland of europe long before 300 A. D.

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Aonghus (vpn.parthus.com - 62.221.5.1)
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 08:49 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Since I live in Ireland I shan't be watching the History channel - and remain sceptical.

Who are the "pics"?

If you mean the Picts - these were a people living in what is now called Scotland, not mainland Europe.

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Seosamh (2cust78.tnt30.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.42.157.206)
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 04:11 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

If a couple of these trees did not grow in Ireland natively, what of it? The Irish were familiar enough with them to have names for them in their own language, just as we do in English.

Ogham inscriptions, even those in Britain, are written in an old form of the Irish language. It was not used to write other languages, certainly not Basque. The Basques, like the Celts, are historically a favorite of people given to fanciful theories, although I note that the article you referred us to at least says that Irish was the language of the WV stone.)

Ogham was used only by the pre-Christian Irish. The Christian missionaries brought in the use of the Roman alphabet (the cló Gaelach is as much Roman as the 'cló Romhánach' of today), and although Ogham was known to them, they never used it. It was the writing system of the pagans. Why would the Chiristians suddenly start using the script of their adversaries, instead of their own once they got to West Virginia? It's also fairly clear that Ogham itself was based indirectly on the Roman alphabet, which means it could hardly be as old as claimed in the article.

There are people who are trained in Old Irish and other languages claimed to be those of the texts, as well as in reading them in their original forms. How can Fell claim to have smoothly translated a substantial text from Old Irish when the real experts can't recognize it as being Irish at all?

It is possible that people from the Eastern Hemisphere reached the Western on one or more occasions before either the Norse or Columbus (to no historical effect). But there has to be evidence before we accept any particular theory. People should beware of the hoaxes and wishful ideas that have been manufactured over the years. They should beware of trashing Irish and Native American heritage to accommodate these theories. This is one of them.

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