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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2000 (July-December) » Up to date Gaelic « Previous Next »

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Dutchgael (webcache.tue.nl - 131.155.14.130)
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2000 - 05:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia dhuit,

I'm learning Irish Gaelic from a book. That's a bit difficult with pronunciation, but I've got a whole CD of Gaelic songs with song texts to help me. (If anybody is interested in the mp3's and the texts, just mail me (R.F.M.v.Oers@student.tue.nl)). But the book I have seems pretty old, with the pages turning yellow. And the Gaelic differs from the Gaelic I see on this site in a number of ways. For example:
English - in my book - on this site
I am Táim Tá mé
You are Táir Tá tú
My room Mo tseomra Mo sheomra

My question is now: is the Gaelic I'm learning oldfashioned?
In my own language (Dutch) you can have more forms for for example "they are" which are all in good use and still up to date. I hope that the Gaelic from my book is just like that. If it's antique, than I might consider getting another book.

Go raibh maith agat,
René (hurray for the fada)

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Seosamh (1cust200.tnt9.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.128.200)
Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2000 - 02:42 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

René,

Your book has Munster Irish. It is perfectly legitimate Irish of the type spoken in Cork and Kerry. But 'mo tseomra'??
Seosamh

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Dutchgael (webcache.tue.nl - 131.155.14.130)
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2000 - 10:15 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Seosamh,

I made a mistake when i wrote "mo tseomra". I didn't study the rules for aspiration and eclipsis (lenition) well enough. My book (so Munster Irish it is) tells that I can only make aspirated s ts after "an". That last part I missed. So "mo sheomra" it should be.
Thank you for pointing that out to me!

René

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Seosamh (1cust49.tnt12.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.136.49)
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2000 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

You did better than if I tried Dutch :-)

You were not far off the mark. 'T' is often prefixed to 's' when lenition is expected, just not in the example above. Standard (and Conamara) Irish gives you 'sa siopa' but you will also hear (and see) 'sa tsiopa' (in the shop). This is done where lenition is expected after an 'n' ('sa' = 'san' or "insan').

Are you using the old Teach Yourself Irish (Dillon & Ó Cróinín)? It's a good book, the only basic textbook (I think) for learning Munster Irish. Out of print, unfortunately.

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Dutchgael (webcache.tue.nl - 131.155.14.130)
Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2000 - 11:24 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Yes it is (Dillon & Ó Cróinín).
Is maith an leabhar é.

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Seosamh (1cust123.tnt14.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.142.123)
Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2000 - 02:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Rinneadh ceirnín i gcomhair an leabhair sin, bíodh 'fhios agat. Bheadh sé deacair teacht air ach coimeád do dhá shúil ar oscailt. Tá ábhar eile ann ó Éirinn féin i nGaoluinn na Mumhan -- a lán leabhar, ó na cinn chlasaiceacha as na Blascaodaí go saothar Mhaidhc Dainín Uí Shé. Tiocfaidh tú ar théipeanna ceoil agus léitheoireachta chomh maith.

You should know that a record (as in 33 1/3 rpms, remember them?) was made for this book. It would be difficult to find it but keep your eyes open. There is other material to be had from Ireland in Munster Irish -- a lot of books, from the classic ones from the Blasket Islands to the work of Maidhc Dainín Ó Sé. You'll also find tapes of music and readings too.

Also don't forget to go there. Ná déan dearmhad ar dhul ann, 's é sin, go Gaeltacht Chiarraí. The Kerry Gaeltacht is the place for you to go. There are some summer classes for adults there (and elsewhere).

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Jonas (stud152.shh.fi - 128.214.106.152)
Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2000 - 08:43 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Congratulations René; you have a book teaching the most beautiful Irish dialect there is ;-)

As you might guess, this is the dialect I speak myself, and it is absolutely not old-fashioned. It is true that it is more archaic than most of the other Irish dialects, but it is still spoken in a number of Galetacht areas (five to be precise.)

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