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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2000 (July-December) » U.S. Civil War/Union Brigade Motto « Previous Next »

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Mary Collins (1cust134.tnt18.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.28.20.134)
Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2000 - 10:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A friend has asked for a translation of the motto on the banner of the First Irish Regimental Brigade.

It reads "Riam nar druid ó sbarin lann."

Any help would be appreciated!

Go raibh míle maith agat,
Máire Eilís

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Laighneach (oak.may.ie - 149.157.1.55)
Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2000 - 12:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

"Isn't that meant to be "rian"?
If so it'd mean: "X that never moved from X blade".
I'd have to check up "rian" and "sbarin".
I have an idea that sbarin means "sabre", but can't be sure.
I can think of a translation of "rian" but it doesn't suit the context, which is everything in a translation.

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Dennis (proxy1-external.sttln1.wa.home.com - 24.4.254.154)
Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2000 - 01:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

"sbarin" is "spairn" Someone else just asked this question two days ago, under the screaming heading "RIAN NAR DRUID O SBARIN LANN". See my explanation there (click on "Last Week"). I'm not entirely satisfied with "rian", even though it makes a more grammatical phrase than we get if we take "riam" to be "riamh". That gives the syntactically odd "riamh nár dhruid ó spairn lann" = "never did shrink from combat" with no subject specified.

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Mary Collins (1cust245.tnt18.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.28.20.245)
Posted on Friday, October 13, 2000 - 06:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Thank you both very much. Thank you Dennis for referring me to the previous posting (I hadn't seen it.) Apparently, this is a popular banner!

It was interesting, my teacher is a native speaker, and university graduate (he studied in Irish), yet he couldn't translate it. He was curious about the opinions of others.

Thank you very much once again. I appreciate the time you took to help us out.

le meas,
Máire Eilís

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Seosamh (1cust200.tnt9.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.128.200)
Posted on Friday, October 13, 2000 - 01:58 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I thought Dennis was right from the first, but I wanted to mull over the 'odd syntax'. It's the regiment that never shrank from clash of arms, of course(?). Not much space on banners. Syntax of Irish OR English gets odd the further back you go (although I take it that this is just Civil War-era language), especially in specialized areas that might have a talk all their own, like mottoes.

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Mary Collins (1cust136.tnt18.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.28.20.136)
Posted on Friday, October 13, 2000 - 06:38 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks Joe! I will pass along your thoughts too!

We appreciate your assistance and that of Dennis and Laighneach. You have all been very helpful.

Go raibh míle maith agat, arís!

Le meas,
Máire Eilís

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Riobárd (wcs1.norfolk.nipr.mil - 198.26.132.101)
Posted on Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 06:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

This Regiment still exists, as a part of the New York National Guard, as a Mechanized Infantry Unit. It was commanded by the old Fenian Thomas Francis Meagher "Meagher of the Sword". This was the motto of the original "Fighting 69th". The Regiment translates this as "We will never fly from the clashing of blades". When different Irish regiments in the Union Army were incorporated into a Brigade under Gen. Meagher, this became the motto of the Union's Irish Brigade.

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Mary Collins (1cust129.tnt10.phl1.da.uu.net - 63.36.10.129)
Posted on Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 07:36 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thank you Riobárd! My class will be happy to get the translation, not to mention the history. It is interesting to see that the regment is still in existence.

Thank you very much.

le meas,
Máire Eilís

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Seosamh (3cust125.tnt11.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.135.125)
Posted on Monday, October 16, 2000 - 12:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Mháire, if you do a search for "Irish Regiment", etc., you'll find much interesting information. I didn't mention that because I was so focused on the translation (which I didn't find) that it didn't occur to me to recommend the sites just for their information. Note that the Irish version of the motto is in the past tense, as Dennis translated it.

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Mary Collins (1cust24.tnt10.phl1.da.uu.net - 63.36.10.24)
Posted on Monday, October 16, 2000 - 06:38 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Joe,

Thanks again! I am very grateful for all the kind messages and answers that everyone has taken the time to provide.

I must tell you, that Leo did ask me to send you an e-mail with this question directly. He was interested in hearing what you had to say.

My class felt that we should post the question, to get several view points. All of the answers & thoughts we received are excellent.

Once again, my class and I appreciate everyone's help.

Go raibh míle maith agaibh!

le meas,
Máire Eilís

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Seosamh (1cust85.tnt9.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.128.85)
Posted on Monday, October 16, 2000 - 07:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Bhí an ceart ag an rang. The class was right. Donncha a d'aistrigh. Dennis is the one who translated it. Tá a lán Gaeilge dhúchasach ag Leo.

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Seosamh (1cust85.tnt9.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.128.85)
Posted on Monday, October 16, 2000 - 07:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá a lán Gaeilge dúchasaí ag Leo. Gabhaigí mo leithscéal.

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