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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2000 (July-December) » Renewed interest in Gaelic language? « Previous Next »

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Jill Eft (198.234.157.11)
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2000 - 04:38 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I am writing a paper for a course, and the topic is the "renewed interest in the Gaelic language" (suggested by my professor). I am interested in knowing everyone's oppinion on this. Some questions I would be interested in hearing discussion on are 1) Is there a truly renewed interest in the Gaelic Language in Ireland? 2) What are the underlying reasons for the government to be supporting the teaching of Gaelic in school (is this even an accurate statement)? Any other oppinions and commentary would be extremely helpful!

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Jill Eft (198.234.157.11)
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2000 - 04:53 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I apologize if I was ignorant in my last message. I have had the opportunity to read more of the postings, and realize I was wrong in referring to Gaelic. I should have said Irish. I also would like more subjective responses than objective. For example, why is there a renewed interest in the language? Is it a popular movement? How do you feel about it? Why is the government showing such support (if this is a true statement)?, etc. Thank you for any help!

Jill

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Dennis King (proxy1-external.sttln1.wa.home.com - 24.4.254.154)
Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2000 - 01:31 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Hi Jill,

Here's a subjective response from someone who learned the language as a young adult: Irish is not your garden variety European language. It has some very strange features (VSO word order, initial mutation, parallel series of broad and slender consonants, inflected prepositions, a strong bias toward prepositional idioms*, etc. etc.) which give it a unique personality. If all this doesn't stymie the learner, it often ends up totally fascinating him/her.

*standard hackneyed example: Tá grá agam duit. = I love you. But literally "is love at-me for-you".

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williamfuller (1cust49.tnt1.ruston.la.da.uu.net - 63.11.21.49)
Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2000 - 11:06 am:   Edit Post Print Post

It was quite possibly the professor who had originally been the one to say "Gaeilic" when he meant Irish and presumably also meant okay. ... It is my surmise that the nasal sounds in French may be carried over from the days of Gaul.Come to think of it, Irish would indeed to seem to have strange features to a native speaker of English. By this point, I more usually find it a member of some uncertainty in remembering them....Bail o Dhia ag an obair!

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william o brien (m3hq0.cybex.ie - 193.120.111.74)
Posted on Friday, October 06, 2000 - 07:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Hi Jill
There are now 252 preschools,166 primary schools
and approx 50 secondary schools allirish speaking
in ireland today.In the 1991 census 56,500 people
in the Rep of ireland said irish was there first
language.You should add about 500 native speakers
in Northern Ireland.However IRISH is in terminal
decline.The galway and kerry gaeltachts are over
run with tourists and people buying holiday homes.
A shortage of housing in ireland means english
speakers will destroy the gaeltachts in 40 years.

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william o brien (m3hq0.cybex.ie - 193.120.111.74)
Posted on Friday, October 06, 2000 - 07:13 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Hi Jill
Gaelic is the name given to irish in the Donegal
gaeltachts.Donegal Gaelic is similar to Scots
Gaelic.Scots Gaelic is descended from irish Gaelic.

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Antaine (130.68.232.109)
Posted on Friday, October 13, 2000 - 12:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I disagree with William O Brien's assessment that the gaeltachts will be gone in 40 years. True, english speaking immigrants have an effect on the language, but according to the Irish times of awhile back (I don't know if they have an archive of old articles on the net, www.ireland.com) the commission on the Gaeltacht recently had a petition brought before it to take another look at the gaeltachts and possibly redraw the borders as the areas are LARGER now then when the lines were first drawn. If two small, isolated areas in the middle of Meath can hold on for as long as they have without disappearing, I don't think the larger gaeltachts need to panic just yet. If someone comes into your shop speaking english, or your neighbour lives next to you for two months out of the year and only speaks english, they you will respond in kind. But if Irish is your native language, and all the year-round residents of your town are as well, then you will speak Irish to your family, to your children, and in general more in a given day than english. You will not necessarily be "converted" (if such a term applies) to speaking only english. A big part of what has damaged the language in the past years has been the attitudes of the powers that be (the british gov't) and the speakers themselves conspiring against the passing of the language to the next generation. The Irish gov't is certainly not trying to kill it like the brits once were, and I think the attituces of the individual speakers has done an about-face as well. Not only are the native speakers NOT trying to "lose" the Irish, but people who only speak english are trying to learn it themselves. I am desperately trying to learn as much as I can, so I can one day teach it to my children. I'm sure I'm not alone, and if that doesn't illustrate a change in the world's attitude towards Gaeilge, I don't know what does.

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Seosamh (1cust200.tnt9.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.128.200)
Posted on Friday, October 13, 2000 - 01:40 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

The traditional Gaeltachts may be in terminal decline but that is not the same thing as saying that Irish is in terminal decline, as precarious and scary as the thought of a Gaeltachtless Irish may be.

I consistently hear comments these days from people of all types saying that they are hearing more Irish spoken. I have heard that about Cork, Clare, Kerry, places in Donegal outside the Gaeltacht, the North and even Dublin (no matter how much English surrounds it there). I've also heard some Gaeltacht people recently make comments indicating a renewal of hope and commitment on their part.

James McCloskey, the linguist, has been quoted as saying that only some 300 languages of the world's present 6,500 languages will be alive in another century but that Irish will be among the 300. But I can understand how the feint-hearted would shy from making the commitment or even contemplating the situation.

But the commitment is worth it. Antaine has the right spirit.

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liam o briain (newcache1.indigo.ie - 194.125.133.245)
Posted on Monday, October 16, 2000 - 04:45 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

In the 1930's the Irish prime minister(Taoiseach) set
up new Gaeltachts in County Meath-Rath Cairn and Baile
Gib.A new Gaeltacht should be set up for all the irish
speakers scattered over Ireland. Your thoughts please

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Seosamh (1cust85.tnt9.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.128.85)
Posted on Monday, October 16, 2000 - 06:53 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá Baile Ghib imithe i gceo nach mór ach tá rath ar Rath Cairn. Rath fosta ar an ghaeltacht bheag ar bhóthar Sheoigh i mBéal Feirste. Rinneadh iarracht ceithre bliana siar le cóilíneacht bheag Ghaeilge a chur ar siúl in eastát títhíochta nua in aice le BÁC ach theip air. Cluinim go bhfuil an micreaGhaeltacht a bunaíodh i gCorcaigh blianta siar (cúig theach atá ann) beo fós. Tá lóistín speisialta le haghaidh mac léinn le Gaeilge ag roinnt ollscoil agus tá roinnt mhaith daoine ann a chur fúthu sa Ghaeltacht leis an teanga a neartú.

Sin an bealach leis an Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn, cinnte, 's é sin daoine a bhfuil Gaeilge acu a thabhairt le chéile. Is féidir é sin a dhéanamh le tithe nó, ar an laghad, le seifeanna eile idir shóisialta agus fhostaíochta. Mar a deir Vincent Morley de chuid an Ghaelic-A agus an Fháinne Orga, 'Tá ár ndóthain daoine a bhfuil Gaeilge againn ach caithfidh iad a thabhairt le chéile leis an teanga a úsáid go nádúrtha.'

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Jonas (botta4.org.helsinki.fi - 128.214.129.28)
Posted on Monday, October 23, 2000 - 01:38 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I don't see the point in setting up new Gaeltachts when most of the old ones are almost dead. Irish is only alive in the western half of the Corca-Dhuibhne Gaeltacht, about 2/3 of the Connemara Gaeltacht and 1/3 of the Donegal Gaeltacht. The remaining Gaeltachts, those in Co. Cork, Co. Mayo, souther Kerry, souther Donegal and Baile Ghib are only Irish-speaking in theory; Irish is all but dead there. Some Irish is still spoken in Ráth Cairn and An Rinn; but is losing ground.

I think it would be much more important to strengthen the existing Gaeltachts before creating new ones, but I would of course fully support more Gaeltacht-areas in Ireland if only the Irish would care to rescue their language.

(As Muiris Ó'Súilleabháin wrote: for everyone who wants to rescue the language there are ten who want to see it go)

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Aonghus (62.221.5.1)
Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2000 - 03:29 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Rath Cairn and Baile Ghib were set up to improve economic conditions for the people transferred from the "Congested Districts". It was a long struggle for the people of Rath Cairn to get a) recognition as a Gaeltacht, and b) basic services from Church and State in Irish.

I think part of the problem is that the State's policies towards the Gaeltachts has been a mixture of policies to improve the economic condition of the areas in the West (many of which are Gaeltachts) and some policies to focus on the language, but these being secondary. Most actions which improved conditions for the language (RnaG for example) only came about because of determined grass roots action by the people of the Gaeltacht.

Tá alt i bhFeasta na míosa seo ag caoineadh an Cadhnach agus Misneach, agus ag rá nach bhfuil a léithéid ann anois. Agus chonaic mé clár spéisiúl ar TG4 le deanaí a thug leargas dhom ar Gluaiseacht Cearta siabhailta na Gaeltachta, nach raibh eolas ar bith agam orthu (rugadh i 1968 mé).

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Seosamh (1cust1.tnt11.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.134.1)
Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2000 - 01:04 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

The point is to bring Irish speakers (native and otherwise) together wherever they are and however that can be done (Gaeltacht coops, Gaelscoileanna in Belfast, Internet, lectures in Dublin or New York.) The main focus should be on existing Irish-speaking communities, but the success of the Belfast Gaeltacht shows that there is potential among Irish-speaking people outside the traditional Gaeltacht. (And don't forget that half the people born in the Gaeltacht live elsewhere.) That potential should not be neglected. Another aspect is the families scattered all over Ireland who raise their children speaking Irish at home. They should be put into contact with each other, as is now being done, to maximize whatever potential is there.

You also should not loose sight of the meaningfulness of the language for people outside the Gaeltacht, Jonas. I thought it was ridiculous when other Americans told me a couple of times that they were learning Irish only to encourage people in the Gaeltacht. If that influences people in the Gaeltacht wonderful. It surprises me, in fact, that it sometimes does just that. But I learned Irish and made it part of my daily life because it is my heritage too. The Gaeltacht is the center but not the entirety.

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Domhnall O hAinlighe (207.92.29.70)
Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2000 - 07:52 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

And here is the proof read version! Sorry!

There is nothing wrong with referring to Irish as Gaelic; that is how it is normally referred to by its native speakers, at least in County Donegal, with which I am most familiar.

Further, use of the term Gaelic (foremrly felt to be pejorative when used by opponents of the language) helps to emphasise the common links of Irish with Scots Gaelic and Manx (and minority languages can do with all the economies of scale they can get!) while, perhaps, making it slightly less nationalistic (unfortunately, in Northern Ireland, it has been seen by some to be partisan).

In any event, either term, Gaelic or Irish, is fine!

I have studied the same topic as part of my MA studies in linguistics - I think (if you have not finished your paper already) you will find the topic interesting.

Would those in charge of this site be interested in uploading scholarly papers on Gaelic for the benefit of learners? It might be more theoretical than practical but could be of interest.

Regards.

Domhnall O hAinlighe

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Liam Guidry (bg-tc-ppp936.monmouth.com - 209.191.51.122)
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 06:57 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Dhomhnaill, a chara,

Yes, of course we would be interested in "scholarly papers on Gaelic for the benefit of learners". A lot would depend on how "user friendly" the papers are; but we'd love to take a look. If you contact me directly we can discuss what you have available. My e-mail address is: liam@daltai.com

I assume that there would be no problem with copyright, etc. Thanks for thinking of us.

Beir bua,

Liam

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LIAM O BRIAIN (202.61.240.198)
Posted on Friday, November 10, 2000 - 11:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Seosamh,

Cén áit i gCorcaigh ina bhfuil an micreaGaeltacht lonnaithe?

Beir bua,
Liam O 'Briain

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Seosamh (1cust32.tnt14.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.142.32)
Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2000 - 09:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Liam, Tá ceithre nó cúig theach áit éigin i gCo, Chorcaigh taobh amuigh den Ghaeltacht. Cheannaigh eagras Gaeilge éigin iad tamall siar (insna 50idí, sílim) agus thairg siad na tithe do theaghlaigh le Gaeilge. Fuair mé amach an t-ainm, srl tamall siar, nuair a thóg duine éigin ceist faoi ar an Gaelic-L nó Gaelic-A. Déanfaidh mé iarracht teacht ar na sonraí arís. Dúradh liom anuraidh go raibh na tithe ann fós agus Gaelgeoirí iontu.

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Seosamh (1cust231.tnt11.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.134.231)
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2000 - 11:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Liam,

Seo cóip de rud a scríobh cara liom domh fá dtaobh de. Bhí an dáta mícheart agam thuas. 'Ard Bharra' an t-ainm atá ar an áit. Níl 'fhios agam go díreach cá bhfuil Ard Bharra taobh istigh de Cho. Chorcaigh ach 'cois Laoi' a scríobh duine éigin ina thaobh.

> A Sheosaimh a chara,
Sraith tithe atá i gceist. Tógadh i 1967 iad agus tá Gaeilgeoirí ina gcónaí iontu ó shoin. Tá Tomás O Cannainnn , an ceolteoir i gceann acu. Ní ach
cúig nó sé thigh ann ar fad. Mion-Ghaeltacht, más mian leat. do Chara Barra<

Rinneadh iarracht pobal Gaeilge a chur le chéile i mbruachbhailte Bhaile Átha Cliath insna 50idí. Rinneadh iarracht eile in eastát títhíochta a bhí á thógáil in aice le BÁC cúig bliana ó shin nó mar sin. Theip ar an dá iarracht. Theip ar Bhaile Ghib sa deireadh fosta.

Ach d'éirigh go réasúnta maith le trí iarracht eile: na Gaeltachtaí nua i mBéal Feirste, Ráth Cairn agus Ard Bharra (dá laghad an ceann seo.

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Kay (dialup-0404.dublin.iol.ie - 193.203.145.148)
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 02:40 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

B'fhéidir go mbeidh suim agaibh sa suíomh seo:
http://www.coimnagael.ie/index.htm

Kay.

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william o brien (202.61.240.198)
Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2000 - 02:41 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Sheosamh,a chara

Gabhaim buíochas duit faoi d'iarrachtaí.Tá plean ag Seamus de hÍde,iarfheidhmanach Talamhaíochta Luimigh den eagras stáit Teagasc chun baile gaelach a bhunú i gContae Luimnigh.Bheadh 10,000 acra ceannaithe agus eastát tionscal tógaithe míle amach ón mbaile agus formhór de dhaoine na háite fostaithe ar an eastát seo.Fuair mé amach ar an idirlíon inné go raibh an ghaeilge á labhairt i Irishtown, Halifax ,Nova Scotia go dtí na ficheadí.
Liam

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Seosamh (1cust200.tnt9.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.128.200)
Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2000 - 02:36 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

GRMA, a Liam. Faisnéis shuimiúil é sin. Táthar ag plé baile nua i gConnachta fosta, i gCo. Mhaigh Eo. Gan áit faoi leith don Ghaeilge ann.

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Tomás O Maonaile (ts01-050.arklow.indigo.ie - 194.125.143.50)
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 02:25 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Feach ar an suiomh GAELTACHT GHLAS NA MÍ ag www.gael.ie

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M‡irt’n (dialup-63.214.96.78.boston1.level3.net - 63.214.96.78)
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 10:15 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Jill a chara,
Go to ireland.com for The Irish Times of Feb. 27,2001. In their Ireland section under what they call the Southern report is an article on new interest in Irish at UCC. It should be useful to you.

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Seán MacSéaghain (ts09-043.dublin.indigo.ie - 194.125.174.43)
Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 01:45 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I am an Irish Speaker but not from a Gaeltacht. I did all my education from primary to secondary in Irish. I feel a much more supportive public attitude to Irish today than ever, however, lack of support from Government to date and the lack of ability within our policy makers has been the single biggest negative factor.

We need active support for people who have Irish but are isolated - like myself.
Till now - Once you left school you found no infrastructure to support further learning in Dublin in Irish.
This is starting to change too - but to-slowly.
Furthermore, resources such as dictionaries are clearly inadequate as the terms multiply in technology at a rate that is not supportable by current resources.

The future of Irish lies with those who speak it and with the resources provided to use it as a vibrant language in the modern world.

Some very powerful suggestions have been made w.r.t a restandardisation that would facilitate augmentation for technical purposes and to make language learning a little easier for those who are thrown by problems of expressing technical language. see. O'Ruairc

It is also very rewarding when one meets someone from abroad who speaks your language. Last Sunday I met a guy from Norway who had perfect Irish. What a Joy

Le meas

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Seosamh (1cust40.tnt12.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.136.40)
Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 01:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Aontaím leat, a Sheáin. Ní neart go cur le chéile. Agus táthar á gcur féin le chéile rómhall. Cuireann an meon a bhaineas leis an teanga isteach orm -- Déantar an rud atá ag teastáil leis an teanga a choimeád beo i gcónaí ag an nóiméad deireannach.

Tá argóintí cumasacha ag Ó Ruairc, cinnte, ach ní rachfainn chomh fada sin. Tá bealaigh ann le téarmaí nua a chumadh idir sheanfhreamhacha agus traslitriú na mbunfhocal ón Ghréigis agus ón Laidin. 'S é an rud is tábhachtaí ná é a dhéanamh gan a bheith ag éisteacht leis na daoine ar mhaith leo an teanga a choimeád go deo insan staid ina raibh sí ar an Bhlascaod Mhór, dá áille í, ná na téarmaí nua a bhrú síos an scornach ar na cainteoirí seanaimseartha ach an oiread.

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Ed T. (a010-1174.cncn.splitrock.net - 209.255.139.158)
Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2001 - 08:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Don't forget, Hebrew was once a nearly deceased language until a few generations ago, when the founders of modern Israel resurrected it. Today there are 20- and 30-year olds who speak Hebrew as their first language, although this would not have been the case 60 years ago.

With the renewed interest in the Irish language, perhaps the same will happen in Ireland..

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Seosamh (1cust173.tnt67.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.57.12.173)
Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2001 - 02:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Muiris Ó Laoire, who gave a presentation at the NAACLT conference in Jersey City cosponsored by Daltaí, has written a book on the Hebrew Rival and its implications for Irish. The title is _Athbheochan na hEabhraise: Ceacht don Ghaeilge?_ It was published in 1999 by An Clóchomhar Tta., ISBN no. 0-903758-84-9. The text is in Irish. I have looked through my copy but not yet read it. It looks thoroughly researched (it's a volume in a scholarly research series) and is certainly handsomely produced.

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Liam O Briain (203.39.221.193)
Posted on Monday, June 18, 2001 - 04:41 am:   Edit Post Print Post

We all know most irish people have an inferiority complex regarding their language. If the government was serious about protecting it they would have a law for gaeltacht areas that newcomers show fluency by having an oral exam. I still can't see a link with the mushrooming of irish medium schools and increased usage. If a bunch of parents in Belfast can set up a breacgaeltacht on their own why can't it happen around the country.

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stu (guardian.aig.com - 167.230.227.60)
Posted on Tuesday, June 19, 2001 - 03:39 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I think the concept of a Gaeltacht as a geographical unit maybe needs a bit of a rethink these days. There are many speakers and learners here (in Australia) as well as N. America and elsewhere.

People who have never met can communicate easily in Irish

I was addressing a local school class last week and finished off by coaching them how to say GRMMA. They got it right first time – all 30 of them - what a wonderful sound !!!

go mbeirimid beo ag an am seo arís

Stu

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