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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2000 (January-June) » Need Translation for A Tattoo « Previous Next »

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bashea
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2000 - 04:32 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I lost my father recently who was of Irish decent (O'Shea, County Cork)and want to add the phrase "please forgive me" to a tattoo I'm having done on my arm in his memory. Can someone please tell me the Irish Gaelic translation?

~Barry Shea~

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An Creabhar
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2000 - 07:04 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Maith dom mo bhfiacha.
literally forgive me my trespasses.

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Máire Ní Ógáin (wwwgate1.motorola.com - 129.188.33.221)
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2000 - 09:19 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Spelling! Sorry, a Chreabhair.

"Maith dom m'fhiacha" would be "Forgive me my trespasses" (Maith dúinn ár bhfiacha - forgive us our trespasses - is from the Our Father/Ár nAthair) and "Maith dom" would be plain "Forgive me." You could tack on the "Please" as "Maith dom, le do thoil" but it's quite formal, not to mention somewhat painful for a tattoo!

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Seosamh (1cust230.tnt12.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.136.230)
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2000 - 09:30 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Pianmhar chomh maith an botún litrithe a cheartú! Maith thú, a Mháire!

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An Creabhar (ls-uranus.mmedia.is - 194.105.246.25)
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2000 - 02:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I'm not trying to be ornery but to understand.

You elided the words which naturally changed both the pronounciation and the spelling. Yours is more likely to be used in common parlance.

I used individual words without elision. What was wrong with what I did?

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Dennis King (proxy1-external.sttln1.wa.home.com - 24.4.254.154)
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2000 - 03:32 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

You slipped, Gadfly, and used the wrong mutation when you wrote "mo bhfiacha".

a fiacha = her debts [no mutation]

a fhiacha = his debts [lenited]

a bhfiacha = their debts [eclipsed]

"mo" and "do" also cause lenition

"ár" and "bhur" cause eclipsis

mo and do often change to m' and d' (or t') before a vowel or fh + vowel: m'athair, m'fháinne, d'athair -or- t'athair, etc.

Thus: mo fhiacha -or- m'fhiacha (or for that matter, mo chuid fiacha, which feels more colloquial & less literary to me)

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bashea
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2000 - 03:34 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks to all of you who responded to my question. This is a devastating time in my life and your help has been comforting.

Could you tell me the phonetic pronunciation of "maith dom"?

Thank you,
~Barry~

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Seosamh (1cust206.tnt11.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.134.206)
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2000 - 08:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

MAH duhm (the second syllable like the English word 'dumb').

If your people come from the North, it is pronounced more like MY doo.

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Seosamh (1cust206.tnt11.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.134.206)
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2000 - 08:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

NOW I see your original note! Disregard what I said about the North!!

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An Creabhar
Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2000 - 07:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Maith agat a Sheosamh agus agatsa leis a Mhaíre.

Tá an ceart leat Máire agus bhí an "Ár n'Athair" i'm cheann.

Cinnte tá meirg ar mo chuid gaeilge.

Le Meas
An Creabhar

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Seosamh (1cust158.tnt14.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.142.158)
Posted on Sunday, June 11, 2000 - 12:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Ní bheidh sé deacair an mheirg a bhaint di.

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Máire Ní Ógáin (wwwgate1.motorola.com - 129.188.33.221)
Posted on Monday, June 12, 2000 - 05:55 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá tú ag foghlaim leat, a Chreabhair agus éireoidh leat fosta, tá súil agam! Ádh mór!

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bashea
Posted on Monday, June 12, 2000 - 12:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

An Creabhar, Seosamh, Máire Ní Ógái:

What on Earth are you folks arguing about up above?

~Barry~

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Laigheanach (ts13-233.dublin.indigo.ie - 194.125.173.233)
Posted on Monday, June 12, 2000 - 04:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Sorry Bashea they don't mean to alienate you on purpose,(even though you did ask the question).But it's hard to resist the temptation not to speak it.(Tear to the eye)

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Seosamh (1cust103.tnt10.nyc1.da.uu.net - 63.16.18.103)
Posted on Monday, June 12, 2000 - 08:26 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Bashea, when some one asks a question, we start off in English. Once the question has been settled, the discussion (usually tangential) often turns to Irish. That may be a bit odd since we don't use the Irish-only forum here very much. But the people (like Liam and Donncha and above all the wise Lucas) who set up this system dedicated this forum to English AND Irish, somehow realizing what would happen. That, or they actually planned for this to happen.

We don't do it to be rude -- I understand how people can feel that way when a language they don't know is being used around them. But when you enter the border between the English and Irish-speaking worlds, this has to be expected. In fact, if you want the language to live, you should welcome it. At least as long as no one is saying bad things about the English monolinguals. And I don't think that has happened in this forum yet -- although a couple of people were offended by things we said in English. We're quite conscientious that way.

'Tattoo', by the way, comes from Tahitian: tatau. The modern Irish dictionaries give the same word with Irish spelling: tatú. I wonder if the Irish had a special word for marking the skin with temporary or permanent designs. There's nothing else in the dictionaries (de Bhaldraithe also gives dord na hoíche but that's another, unrelated meaning of the English word tattoo.)

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Dennis King (proxy1-external.sttln1.wa.home.com - 24.4.254.154)
Posted on Monday, June 12, 2000 - 09:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Sheosaimh,

The early Irish and tattoos! A friend of mine, Charlie MacQuarrie, wrote his doctoral dissertation on just that very obscure subject a couple of years ago. He's a member of the Old-Irish-L list, so if you're really curious, you could put the question to him there. All I can remember now is that the evidence is scanty for the practice and that "rindad" (cf. modern "rinn" = sharp-pointed instrument) was one word that may have referred to it. (Agus féach gur scríobh mé an méid seo i mBéarla, le go mbeadh do dhuine in ann é a thuiscint, agus le go mbeadh a fhios aige nach raibh na Sean-Ghaeil breactha le tatúnna, go bhfios dúinn.)

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Seosamh (3cust29.tnt12.nyc3.da.uu.net - 63.23.138.29)
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2000 - 12:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks. Go raibh maith agat, a Dhonncha! It was my assumption that the early Irish (and more so, the early Celts, in general) had tatoos but I had no idea if it was common or not. (Although I did assume they weren't as popular as they are today!) I admire any one who could make a Ph.D. dissertation out of such a marginal topic, but unlike some dissertation topics it's fully legitimate.

If it looks like the O-I-L can stand any more excitement and if I have the time, I'll post the question. Beidh an cheist ar mo mhéir fhada (nó ghearr -- tife muid).

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An Creabhar
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2000 - 12:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

LOL No not fighting Barry.

Simply a grammar lesson for a long ago emigrant with rusty Irish.

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